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List: western_monarchs
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 18:42:55 -0400
From: Dale McClung <adverweb...> [western_monarchs] <western_monarchs...>
Subject: Re: [western_monarchs] Oregon Monarch migrates to Santa Barbara for breeding

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David,

OK. It was probably non mated. As Paul Cherubini noted, winter breeding
monarchs are not that uncommon. If you live in the north you wouldn't
notice as we do in the south. There is a question as to whether they
break diapause and become reproductive on arrival for some reason, are
predisposed to being reproductive and lay eggs enroute producing one
last generation or reproductive monarchs following the sun angle south
along with the diapaused monarchs also laying eggs as the move south.

I am in FL as you may recall and I've always observed fall migrants
being reproductive at my latitude. Non reproductive monarchs probably
would escape my notice if they were continuing south and they have been
reported in Cuba and other Caribbean islands, but inquiries I have made
to some in the FL Keys in the past have not yielded any reports of any
substantial monarch migration through the Keys.

The flyway is along the East coast into peninsular Florida. I myself
recovered a tag of a gravid female here. It was one of Lincoln Brower's
tags and I sent the specimen to him. It was tagged on Cape May, NJ, a
distance of about 1,000 miles and traveled twice as far as your
recovery. It was dead when I found it. I know it was alive and
reproductive because I netted it and collected eggs from her only
discovering the tag when removing dead butterflies from the aviary. The
fall migration reaches my latitude in mid October.

The assumption has been they die out in place if not diapaused in the
past. The prevailing view of the scientific establishment as it were is
FL is a biological sink, but I view the state as a repository. Either
way, the northward movement out of Florida in spring is minor compared
to MX or CA (there is data now suggesting a movement up the East coast
in spring as I interpret the observations from Journey North).

The introduction of tropical milkweed, /A. Curassavica/, has been
speculated as to a causal relationship as an evergreen milkweed with
monarchs breaking diapause, but Gail Morris of the SW Monarch Study as I
recall has, at least in AZ, noted they prefer narrow leaf milkweed, also
evergreen and a native, over tropical in AZ as per her observation
though she may elaborate on that as it is only from one of her
presentations I recall this. Tropical milkweed has been naturalized in
FL since the 19th century and development in FL has been so prolific it
is hard to imagine what the native host plant population once was but in
S. FL Dr. Brower in one of his papers noted tropical and swamp milkweed,
perhaps one other species, were present years ago before nursery
offerings for butterfly gardening. Irregardless, monarchs migrating
through TX and MX when they reach frost free areas will encounter
milkweeds but do not reproduce if in migratory diapause, so the causual
relationship between this species of milkweed and breaking diapause is
controversial.

I tend to look at biology over long periods of time. To me the monarch
has something in common with sea turtles. Continental drift has moved
the beaches they lay their eggs on slowly inch by inch further causing
longer migrations. Similarly the range of common milkweed and other cold
hearty species has moved northward since the last ice age when Canada
was under glacial ice (no monarchs there then) and Florida was a
Savannah probably harboring common milkweed and other now further
northern species that no longer grow here. Then the migration would have
been shorter. Whether this long term climate fluctuation caused by the
ice ages has any relevance to the breaking of diapause, the answer is
probably simpler, is a question I do ponder though. South of MX City in
tropical MX through Central ans Northern S. America, the monarch
population is considered resident. I have as you mentioned always
thought they have or are capable of two survival strategies as a species
and the cues are environmental as to which strategy they employ.

Dale McClung


On 9/26/17 2:39 PM, 'James, David G' <david_james...>
[western_monarchs] wrote:
>
>
> It was reared.. eclosed, tagged and released on September 3
>
> *From:*<western_monarchs...>
> [mailto:<western_monarchs...>]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 26, 2017 11:38 AM
> *To:* <western_monarchs...>
> *Subject:* Re: [western_monarchs] Oregon Monarch migrates to Santa
> Barbara for breeding
>
>
> Yes. She may have been reproductive that early in Sept. since she may
> have been older than Sept. 3. Was it a reared butterfly or field
> captured?
>
> Dale
>
> On 9/26/17 2:28 PM, 'James, David G' <david_james...>
> <mailto:<david_james...> [western_monarchs] wrote:
>
> Which bit? That she was non-reproductive?
>
> Monarchs can only migrate (545 miles in 19 days) in a state of
> reproductive dormancy, fueled by lipid deposition rather than
> expending energy on egg production.
>
> David
>
> *From:*<western_monarchs...>
> <mailto:<western_monarchs...>
> [mailto:<western_monarchs...>]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 26, 2017 11:25 AM
> *To:* <western_monarchs...>
> <mailto:<western_monarchs...>
> *Subject:* Re: [western_monarchs] Oregon Monarch migrates to Santa
> Barbara for breeding
>
> On 9/26/17 1:06 PM, Mona Miller <runmede...>
> <mailto:<runmede...> [western_monarchs] wrote:
> > This Klamath Falls female Monarch released on September 3
> migrated 545
> > miles in less than 19 days, clearly a non-reproductive migrant.
>
> David,
>
> How do you know that?
>
> Dale McClung
>
>
>
>



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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
David,<br>
<br>
OK. It was probably non mated. As Paul Cherubini noted, winter
breeding monarchs are not that uncommon. If you live in the north
you wouldn't notice as we do in the south. There is a question as
to whether they break diapause and become reproductive on arrival
for some reason, are predisposed to being reproductive and lay
eggs enroute producing one last generation or reproductive
monarchs following the sun angle south along with the diapaused
monarchs also laying eggs as the move south. <br>
<br>
I am in FL as you may recall and I've always observed fall
migrants being reproductive at my latitude. Non reproductive
monarchs probably would escape my notice if they were continuing
south and they have been reported in Cuba and other Caribbean
islands, but inquiries I have made to some in the FL Keys in the
past have not yielded any reports of any substantial monarch
migration through the Keys. <br>
<br>
The flyway is along the East coast into peninsular Florida. I
myself recovered a tag of a gravid female here. It was one of
Lincoln Brower's tags and I sent the specimen to him. It was
tagged on Cape May, NJ, a distance of about 1,000 miles and
traveled twice as far as your recovery. It was dead when I found
it. I know it was alive and reproductive because I netted it and
collected eggs from her only discovering the tag when removing
dead butterflies from the aviary. The fall migration reaches my
latitude in mid October.<br>
<br>
The assumption has been they die out in place if not diapaused in
the past. The prevailing view of the scientific establishment as
it were is FL is a biological sink, but I view the state as a
repository. Either way, the northward movement out of Florida in
spring is minor compared to MX or CA (there is data now suggesting
a movement up the East coast in spring as I interpret the
observations from Journey North).<br>
<br>
The introduction of tropical milkweed, <i>A. Curassavica</i>,
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<![endif]--><!--StartFragment--><!--EndFragment--> has been speculated
as to a causal relationship as an evergreen milkweed with monarchs
breaking diapause, but Gail Morris of the SW Monarch Study as I
recall has, at least in AZ, noted they prefer narrow leaf
milkweed, also evergreen and a native, over tropical in AZ as per
her observation though she may elaborate on that as it is only
from one of her presentations I recall this. Tropical milkweed has
been naturalized in FL since the 19th century and development in
FL has been so prolific it is hard to imagine what the native host
plant population once was but in S. FL Dr. Brower in one of his
papers noted tropical and swamp milkweed, perhaps one other
species, were present years ago before nursery offerings for
butterfly gardening. Irregardless, monarchs migrating through TX
and MX when they reach frost free areas will encounter milkweeds
but do not reproduce if in migratory diapause, so the causual
relationship between this species of milkweed and breaking
diapause is controversial.<br>
<br>
I tend to look at biology over long periods of time. To me the
monarch has something in common with sea turtles. Continental
drift has moved the beaches they lay their eggs on slowly inch by
inch further causing longer migrations. Similarly the range of
common milkweed and other cold hearty species has moved northward
since the last ice age when Canada was under glacial ice (no
monarchs there then) and Florida was a Savannah probably harboring
common milkweed and other now further northern species that no
longer grow here. Then the migration would have been shorter.
Whether this long term climate fluctuation caused by the ice ages
has any relevance to the breaking of diapause, the answer is
probably simpler, is a question I do ponder though. South of MX
City in tropical MX through Central ans Northern S. America, the
monarch population is considered resident. I have as you mentioned
always thought they have or are capable of two survival strategies
as a species and the cues are environmental as to which strategy
they employ.<br>
<br>
Dale McClung<br>
<br>
<br>
On 9/26/17 2:39 PM, 'James, David G' <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:<david_james...>"><david_james...></a>
[western_monarchs] wrote:<br>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">It
was reared.. eclosed, tagged and released on September 3
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:<western_monarchs...>"><western_monarchs...></a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:<western_monarchs...>">mailto:<western_monarchs...></a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 26, 2017 11:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:<western_monarchs...>"><western_monarchs...></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [western_monarchs] Oregon Monarch
migrates to Santa Barbara for breeding<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">  <o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg">
<div id="ygrp-msg">
<div id="ygrp-text">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Yes. She may have been reproductive that early in
Sept. since she may have been older than Sept. 3.  Was
it a reared butterfly or field captured?<br>
<br>
Dale<br>
<br>
On 9/26/17 2:28 PM, 'James, David G' <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:<david_james...>"><david_james...></a>
[western_monarchs] wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Which
bit? That she was non-reproductive?
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Monarchs
can only migrate (545 miles in 19 days) in a state
of reproductive dormancy, fueled by lipid
deposition rather than expending energy on egg
production.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">David</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:<western_monarchs...>"><western_monarchs...></a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:<western_monarchs...>">mailto:<western_monarchs...></a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 26, 2017 11:25
AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:<western_monarchs...>"><western_monarchs...></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [western_monarchs] Oregon
Monarch migrates to Santa Barbara for breeding</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> 
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg">
<div id="ygrp-msg">
<div id="ygrp-text">
<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On 9/26/17 1:06
PM, Mona Miller <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:<runmede...>">
<runmede...></a> [western_monarchs]
wrote:<br>
&gt; This Klamath Falls female Monarch
released on September 3 migrated 545 <br>
&gt; miles in less than 19 days, clearly a
non-reproductive migrant. <br>
<br>
David,<br>
<br>
How do you know that?<br>
<br>
Dale McClung<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:white"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>

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</blockquote>
<p><br>
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