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List: western_monarchs
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 13:36:55 -0700
From: 'Ron K. Jeffries' <rjeffries...> [western_monarchs] <western_monarchs...>
Subject: Re: [western_monarchs] How does one get full article

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Amusingly, the link in your email brings up a political site. LOL

So I looked at https://www.westernmonarchcount.org/

They provide: wmtc-data-1997-2017.pdf obviously a PDF not a format that R
it a spreadsheet program can use as input.

The paper uses non-thanksgiving count data. Transparency requires that all
data be available for use by other researchers.

Related: I tried to get contact information for lead author of this study,
but on my computer nothing came up. Not sure why, but if someone has that
info and will share it would be great.

Ron K Jeffries

On Sep 29, 2017 11:58 AM, "Francis Villablanca
<footlooseandfrancisfree...> [western_monarchs]" <
<western_monarchs...> wrote:

>
>
> Ron, I believe there is a link to the western monarch Count.org in the
> first paragraph of the method section.
>
> Francis Villablanca
> San Luis Obispo.
>
> On Sep 29, 2017, at 9:44 AM, 'Ron K. Jeffries' <rjeffries...>
> [western_monarchs] <western_monarchs...> wrote:
>
>
>
> To Xerces:
>
> Is the full year by year per site data set used by this study available i=
n
> spreadsheet format?
>
> I would appreciate a link to the data.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Ron K Jeffries
>
> On Sep 29, 2017 8:10 AM, "Francis Villablanca
> <footlooseandfrancisfree...> [western_monarchs]" <
> <western_monarchs...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Paul, they came from informal counts. Counts pre-dating the formalized
>> WMTC. I am sure you are aware that there were counts happening and that
>> they got coordinated and centralized when the WMTC "began." Those count=
s
>> are in the Xerces database. Just to be clear, the authors analytical
>> methods (how the numbers are crunched) did consider variation in things
>> like the number of sites counted per year and so on.
>>
>> Best,
>> Francis Villablanca
>> San Luis Obispo
>>
>>
>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 7:25 PM, Paul Cherubini <monarch...>
>> [western_monarchs] <western_monarchs...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Francis, I cannot figure out where in the paper it explains where
>> the 10,000,000 butterflies in 1997 estimate figure came from?
>> http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/1042/vyJLUv.jpg
>> And since there were no formal Thanksgiving Counts prior to
>> 1997, where did the 1980=E2=80=99s and early 1990=E2=80=99s count data
>> shown in that same graph come from; e.g. the 100,000 butterflies
>> estimate for 1994?
>> http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/1042/vyJLUv.jpg
>>
>> If readers cannot understand how the authors arrived at their
>> overwintering
>> population estimate figures for each of the 35 years show in their graph
>> then they cannot duplicate what the authors did; i.e. their science
>> cannot
>> be replicated. And one of the main principles of the scientific method i=
s
>> reproducibility.
>>
>> Paul Cherubini
>> El Dorado, Calif.
>>
>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 5:53 PM, Francis Xavier Villablanca
>> <footlooseandfrancisfree...> [western_monarchs] <
>> <western_monarchs...> wrote:
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> It is in the first paragraph of the Methods and Materials. Specifically:
>> "Our analysis includes 186 sites, with counts from 1981*=E2=80=93*2016 (=
Fig.
>> 1)." They also "We filtered the full dataset to include only sites
>> monitored at least five years (see Supplement 6)." So, they used WMTC
>> data.
>>
>>
>>=20
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">Amusingly, the link in your email brings up a political s=
ite. LOL<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">So I looked at=C2=A0<=
a href=3D"https://www.westernmonarchcount.org/">https://www.westernmonarchc=
ount.org/</a></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">They provi=
de: wmtc-data-1997-2017.pdf obviously a PDF not a format that R it a spread=
sheet program can use as input.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">The paper uses non-thanksgiving count data. Transparency requires=
that all data be available for use by other researchers.</div><div dir=3D"=
auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Related: I tried to get contact informati=
on for lead author of this study, but on my computer nothing came up. Not s=
ure why, but if someone has that info and will share it would be great.</di=
v><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Ron K Jeffries</div></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sep 29, 2017 11=
:58 AM, &quot;Francis Villablanca <a href=3D"mailto:footlooseandfrancisfree=
@gmail.com"><footlooseandfrancisfree...></a> [western_monarchs]&quot; =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<western_monarchs...>">western_monarchs@ya=
hoogroups.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex">


<u></u>









=20
<div style=3D"background-color:#fff">
<span style=3D"display:none">=C2=A0</span>


<div id=3D"m_-1137097082731623274ygrp-mlmsg">
<div id=3D"m_-1137097082731623274ygrp-msg">


<div id=3D"m_-1137097082731623274ygrp-text">
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<p><div>Ron, I believe there is a link to the western monarch <a href=
=3D"http://Count.org" target=3D"_blank">Count.org</a>=C2=A0in the first par=
agraph of the method section.<br><br>Francis Villablanca<div>San Luis Obisp=
o.</div></div><div><br>On Sep 29, 2017, at 9:44 AM, &#39;Ron K. Jeffries&#3=
9; <a href=3D"mailto:<rjeffries...>" target=3D"_blank">rjeffries@gmail=
.com</a> [western_monarchs] &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:western_monarchs@yahoogro=
ups.com" target=3D"_blank">western_monarchs@yahoogroups.<wbr>com</a>&gt; wr=
ote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>












=20

<span>=C2=A0</span>



<div id=3D"m_-1137097082731623274ygrp-text">
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<p></p><div dir=3D"auto">To Xerces:<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div d=
ir=3D"auto">Is the full year by year per site data set used by this study a=
vailable in spreadsheet format?=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div=
dir=3D"auto">I would appreciate a link to the data.<div dir=3D"auto"><br><=
/div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks</div><div dir=3D"=
auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Ron K Jeffries</div></div></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sep 29, 2017 8:10 AM, &=
quot;Francis Villablanca <a href=3D"mailto:<footlooseandfrancisfree...>=
m" target=3D"_blank">footlooseandfrancisfree@gmail.<wbr>com</a> [western_mo=
narchs]&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<western_monarchs...>" targe=
t=3D"_blank">western_monarchs@yahoogroups.<wbr>com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=
=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left:1px=
#ccc solid">


<u></u>









=20
<div style=3D"background-color:#fff">
<span>=C2=A0</span>


<div id=3D"m_-1137097082731623274m_-8371934381233335884ygrp-mlmsg">
<div id=3D"m_-1137097082731623274m_-8371934381233335884ygrp-msg">


<div id=3D"m_-1137097082731623274m_-8371934381233335884ygrp-text">
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<p></p><div>Paul, they came from informal counts. Counts pre-dating t=
he formalized WMTC. I am sure you are aware that there were counts happenin=
g and that they got coordinated and centralized when the WMTC &quot;began.&=
quot; =C2=A0Those counts are in the Xerces database. Just to be clear, the =
authors analytical methods (how the numbers are crunched) did consider vari=
ation in things like the number of sites counted per year and so on.=C2=A0<=
/div><div id=3D"m_-1137097082731623274m_-8371934381233335884AppleMailSignat=
ure"><br></div><div id=3D"m_-1137097082731623274m_-8371934381233335884Apple=
MailSignature">Best,</div><div id=3D"m_-1137097082731623274m_-8371934381233=
335884AppleMailSignature">Francis Villablanca</div><div id=3D"m_-1137097082=
731623274m_-8371934381233335884AppleMailSignature">San Luis Obispo<br><br><=
/div><div><br>On Sep 28, 2017, at 7:25 PM, Paul Cherubini <a href=3D"mailto=
:<monarch...>" target=3D"_blank"><monarch...></a> [western_monarc=
hs] &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<western_monarchs...>" target=3D"_blan=
k">western_monarchs@yahoogroups.<wbr>com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><block=
quote type=3D"cite"><div>












=20

<span>=C2=A0</span>



<div id=3D"m_-1137097082731623274m_-8371934381233335884ygrp-text">
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<p>Francis, I cannot figure out where in the paper it explains where<=
/p><div>the 10,000,000 butterflies in 1997 estimate figure came from?=C2=A0=
<div><a href=3D"http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/1042/vyJLUv.jpg" tar=
get=3D"_blank">http://imagizer.imageshack.us/<wbr>a/img924/1042/vyJLUv.jpg<=
/a></div><div>And since there were no formal Thanksgiving Counts prior to=
=C2=A0</div><div>1997, where did the 1980=E2=80=99s and early 1990=E2=80=99=
s count data=C2=A0</div><div>shown in that same graph come from; e.g. the 1=
00,000 butterflies</div><div>estimate for 1994?</div><div><a href=3D"http:/=
/imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/1042/vyJLUv.jpg" target=3D"_blank">http://=
imagizer.imageshack.us/<wbr>a/img924/1042/vyJLUv.jpg</a></div><div><br></di=
v><div>If readers cannot understand how the authors arrived at their overwi=
ntering</div><div>population estimate figures for each of the 35 years show=
in their graph</div><div>then they cannot duplicate what the authors did; =
i.e. their science cannot=C2=A0</div><div>be replicated. And one of the mai=
n principles of the scientific method is=C2=A0</div><div>reproducibility.</=
div><div><br></div><div>Paul Cherubini</div><div>El Dorado, Calif.</div><di=
v><div><br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Sep 28, 2017, at 5:53 PM,=
Francis Xavier Villablanca <a href=3D"mailto:footlooseandfrancisfree@gmail=
.com" target=3D"_blank">footlooseandfrancisfree@gmail.<wbr>com</a> [western=
_monarchs] &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<western_monarchs...>" target=
=3D"_blank">western_monarchs@yahoogroups.<wbr>com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br c=
lass=3D"m_-1137097082731623274m_-8371934381233335884Apple-interchange-newli=
ne"><div>Paul,<br><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size=
:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spaci=
ng:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:=
normal"><div><br></div><div>It is in the first paragraph of the Methods and=
Materials. Specifically: &quot;Our analysis includes 186 sites, with count=
s from 1981<span class=3D"m_-1137097082731623274m_-8371934381233335884gmail=
-s1"><b>=E2=80=93</b></span>2016 (Fig. 1).&quot; They also &quot;We<span cl=
ass=3D"m_-1137097082731623274m_-8371934381233335884Apple-converted-space">=
=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"m_-1137097082731623274m_-8371934381233335884gma=
il-s1">fi</span>ltered the full dataset to include only sites monitored at =
least<span class=3D"m_-1137097082731623274m_-8371934381233335884Apple-conve=
rted-space">=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"m_-1137097082731623274m_-8371934381=
233335884gmail-s1">fi</span>ve years (see Supplement 6).&quot; So, they use=
d WMTC data.</div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div><p><=
/p>

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