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List: western_monarchs
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 10:08:03 -0700
From: 'Ron K. Jeffries' <rjeffries...> [western_monarchs] <western_monarchs...>
Subject: Re: [western_monarchs] Permanent Marker Destroys Monarch Wings

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I worked with Dr Fry and a group of Pismo State Parks Monarch Grove
volunteers and docents along with CalPoly folks with capturing and marking
monarchs.

Fry used a method where the first time in the season we marked a specific
wing section. a few weeks later, we would make a different section, and so
on for (as I recall) as many as four seperate capture/recapture sessions.

Fry had us record sex and if the butterfly had previously been marked (and
which time. So the first round, all were new captures. The second time a
few weeks later it would be a mix, mainly unmarked butterflies, but a
certain number were previously marked. By feeding the data into a program,
the data on capture/recapture provides an elegant way to estimate total
population at the overwintering site.

Later, when Dr Fry was no long participating, the methodology was changed
to not do the capture/recapture. A study showed the two methods agreed
reasonably well, and not handling buterflies had obvious benefits.

However, in the early days (before my time) Dr Fry also sampled the
captured monarchs for OE, hard to do that with binoculars. LOL

Absent solid research results, I'm skeptical that small permanent marker
spots on wings have a significant effect. Next we'll hear that labels 0n
marked butterflies are responsible for the population crash. JUST KIDDING!

Ron K Jeffries

---
Ron K. Jeffries
805-380-5446 mobile





On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:17 PM, Paul Cherubini <monarch...>
[western_monarchs] <western_monarchs...> wrote:

>
>
> Paul, Do you have documentation to prove this?
>
>
> Below is one of many reports about the Sharpie marking of thousands of
> overwintering
> monarchs: http://www.ventanaws.org/pdf/about_research/Monarch%20Report_
> 2004.pdf
>
> page 6: =E2=80=9Cwe also marked nearly 3,000 individuals with a Sharpie p=
en in
> one of the marginal cells of the right hindwing. This was done by
> undergraduate students from a Cal Poly Animal Behavior class
> conducted by [Professor] Dennis Frey on five sessions in November
> and December 2003:
>
> Here=E2=80=99s a report about Sharpie marking of summer monarchs
> *http://tinyurl.com/ya7446lr <http://tinyurl.com/ya7446lr>*
>
> *"*two Sharpie markers, one blue (male), one red (female) to
> differentiate sampled butterflies from a distance by a wing
> symbol (Figure 2)"
>
> *Paul Cherubini*
> *El Dorado, Calif*
>
>=20
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I worked with Dr Fry and a group of Pismo State Parks Mona=
rch Grove volunteers and docents along with CalPoly folks with capturing an=
d marking monarchs.<div><br></div><div>Fry used a method where the first ti=
me in the season we marked a specific wing section. a few weeks later, we w=
ould make a different section, and so on for (as I recall) as many as four =
seperate capture/recapture sessions.</div><div><br></div><div>Fry had us re=
cord sex and if the butterfly had previously been marked (and which time. S=
o the first round, all were new captures. The second time a few weeks later=
it would be a mix, mainly unmarked butterflies, but a certain number were =
previously marked. By feeding the data into a program, the data on capture/=
recapture provides an elegant way to estimate total population at the overw=
intering site.</div><div><br></div><div>Later, when Dr Fry was no long part=
icipating, the methodology was changed to not do the capture/recapture. A s=
tudy showed the two methods agreed reasonably well, and not handling buterf=
lies had obvious benefits.</div><div><br></div><div>However, in the early d=
ays (before my time) Dr Fry also sampled the captured monarchs for OE, hard=
to do that with binoculars. LOL</div><div><br></div><div>Absent solid rese=
arch results, I&#39;m skeptical that small permanent marker spots on wings =
have a significant effect. Next we&#39;ll hear that labels 0n marked butter=
flies are responsible for the population crash. JUST KIDDING!=C2=A0</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>Ron K Jeffries</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br =
clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_s=
ignature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>---<br>Ron K. Jeffries<div><span title=3D"C=
all with Google Voice">805-380-5446 mobile</span></div><div><br><br><br><br=
></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:17 PM, Paul Cherubi=
ni <a href=3D"mailto:<monarch...>"><monarch...></a> [western_mona=
rchs] <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:western_monarchs@yahoogroups.=
com" target=3D"_blank"><western_monarchs...></a>&gt;</span> wrot=
e:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


<u></u>









=20
<div style=3D"background-color:#fff">
<span style=3D"display:none">=C2=A0</span>


<div id=3D"m_-4645977581788528894ygrp-mlmsg">
<div id=3D"m_-4645977581788528894ygrp-msg">


<div id=3D"m_-4645977581788528894ygrp-text">
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<p></p><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite">Paul, Do you have document=
ation to prove this?=C2=A0<br></blockquote><br>Below is one of many reports=
about the Sharpie marking of thousands of overwintering<br>monarchs:=C2=A0=
<a href=3D"http://www.ventanaws.org/pdf/about_research/Monarch%20Report_200=
4.pdf" target=3D"_blank">http://www.<wbr>ventanaws.org/pdf/about_<wbr>resea=
rch/Monarch%20Report_<wbr>2004.pdf</a></div><div><br></div><div>page 6: =E2=
=80=9Cwe also marked nearly 3,000 individuals with a Sharpie pen in<br>one =
of the marginal cells of the right hindwing.=C2=A0 This was done by<br>unde=
rgraduate students from a Cal Poly Animal Behavior class=C2=A0<br>conducted=
by [Professor] Dennis Frey on five sessions in November<br>and December 20=
03:</div><div><br></div><div>Here=E2=80=99s a report about Sharpie marking =
of summer monarchs</div><div><b><a href=3D"http://tinyurl.com/ya7446lr" tar=
get=3D"_blank">http://tinyurl.com/ya7446lr</a></b></div><div><b><br></b></d=
iv><div><b>&quot;</b>two Sharpie markers, one blue (male), one red (female)=
to=C2=A0</div><div>differentiate sampled butterflies from a distance by a =
wing=C2=A0</div><div>symbol (Figure 2)&quot;</div><div><b><br></b></div><di=
v><b>Paul Cherubini</b></div><div><b>El Dorado, Calif</b></div></div><p></p=
>

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Posted by: &quot;Ron K. Jeffries&quot; &lt;<rjeffries...>&gt;=
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