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List: SoWestLep
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2019 19:19:18 -0600
From: 'Todd Stout' <todd...> [SoWestLep] <SoWestLep-noreply...>
Subject: RE: [SoWestLep] RFI: Butterfly taxonomy

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I totally agree with Jeff. The Pelham Catalogue is very helpful. I just r=
ecently revised the sara orangetip complex in N.A. and Pelham accepted my t=
axonomic treatment in his recent update of the Catalogue.=20=20

=20

I use scientific names with lepidopterists and common names with butterfly =
gardeners and others new to butterflies as I lead field trips in Utah for a=
varied audience. Butterfly photographers in Utah use both; so, it=E2=80=
=99s a case by case situation. Because I use common names so much with new=
bies, I sometimes use common names with lepidopterists and get funny looks.=
Sorry guys and then I shift gears back again. It=E2=80=99s helpful to ve=
rsatile enough to know both; especially when discussing and researching tax=
onomy or dealing with an audience with varied backgrounds. I try to get a=
feel for where people feel comfortable. I like Ken Davenport=E2=80=99s ap=
proach of typing both side by side when composing emails again to an audien=
ce with varied backgrounds.

=20

Thx, Todd

=20

=20

Todd L. Stout=20
Raising Butterflies

<https://store.raisingbutterflies.org/> https://store.raisingbutterflies.o=
rg=20=20
<http://www.raisingbutterflies.org/about-me/> http://www.raisingbutterflie=
s.org/about-me/=20
<mailto:<todd...> <todd...>
801-326-4683=20

=20

From: <SoWestLep...> <SoWestLep...> On Behalf Of Je=
ff Pippen <jeffpippen9...> [SoWestLep]
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2019 5:24 PM
To: <mattbrownbirds...>
Cc: <SoWestLep...>
Subject: Re: [SoWestLep] RFI: Butterfly taxonomy

=20

=20=20

I=E2=80=99ll throw my 2 cents worth in here. I think the Pelham Catalog is=
the most widely available and accepted, up-to-date butterfly scientific ta=
xonomic list for North America north of Mexico. It=E2=80=99s regularly upd=
ated and is available here (latest update April 2019):

=20

http://www.butterfliesofamerica.com/US-Can-Cat.htm

=20

For common names, it makes sense to me at least, to use the NABA common nam=
es as much as possible in order to =E2=80=9Cbridge the gap=E2=80=9D between=
=E2=80=9Ccollectors=E2=80=9D and "watchers=E2=80=9D rather than widen it. =
Serious lepidopterists will use scientific names anyway, and using NABA co=
mmon names (which are more widely available and known) makes it easier to t=
alk with and get =E2=80=9Cnew=E2=80=9D butterfly enthusiasts interested. W=
ith luck, we can get them collecting or helping with various research and m=
onitoring projects, whether collecting or not.

=20

Cheers,

Jeff

=20

--

Jeffrey S. Pippen

Durham, NC=20

http://www.jeffpippen.com/

=20

On Jul 7, 2019, at 4:58 PM, <mattbrownbirds...> <mailto:mattbrownbirds=
@gmail.com> [SoWestLep] <SoWestLep-noreply...> <mailto:SoWestL=
<ep-noreply...> > wrote:

=20

=20

Greetings SouthWestLepsters-

I apologize if this is a na=C3=AFve query but I've done a little looking ar=
ound and I'd like to know what is the most widely and currently accepted li=
st of the taxonomic order of common and scientific names of butterflies, i=
ncluding recognizable subspecies. The Pelham catalog is a bit unwieldy and,=
for me at least, difficult to follow (and 2014 is the most recent version =
I can find). Is the catalog even in the most widely accepted sequence? It p=
laces Hesperiidae first with Nymphalids last, as other more scientific sour=
ces do (including RAB's partially alphabetic Annotated Checklist of AZ Butt=
erflies), but reverses the position of skippers found in more public source=
s such as field-guides and the NABA Checklist of North American Butterflies=
2.4 (also, I think, from 2014). I get starting with more colorful and flas=
hy groupings and putting skippers last in a field-guide and checklist for c=
onvenience (and convention), but is there any scholarly validity in doing s=
o? NABA seems to recognize itself as the source of acceptable current nomen=
clature, and LepSoc has nothing available to non-members (I guess I could j=
oin and see what they say).

=20

So I'm just wondering if there has been compiled by anyone (other than Pelh=
am and his opus) a "simple" list of currently and widely used species and s=
ubspecies names, both common and scientific, in the most recently deliberat=
ed taxonomic order. Maybe it's Glassberg et. al.'s NABA list, but I don't k=
now if it's in the most academically accepted sequence. Thanks to anyone wh=
o can supply info, or even just read this.

=20

Matt Brown

Patagonia, AZ

<mailto:<mattbrownbirds...> <mattbrownbirds...>

flickr: <https://flic.kr/ps/zUTe8> https://flic.kr/ps/zUTe8

<http://lifebirds.com/> lifebirds.com

=20

=20




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<div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.=
0pt;font-family:"Constantia",serif;color:navy'>I totally agree with Jeff.=
=C2=A0 The Pelham Catalogue is very helpful.=C2=A0 I just recently revised =
the sara orangetip complex in N.A. and Pelham accepted my taxonomic treatme=
nt in his recent update of the Catalogue.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Constantia",se=
rif;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Constantia",serif;color:navy'>I use scie=
ntific names with lepidopterists and common names with butterfly gardeners =
and others new to butterflies as I lead field trips in Utah for a varied au=
dience.=C2=A0 Butterfly photographers in Utah use both; so, it=E2=80=99s a =
case by case situation.=C2=A0 Because I use common names so much with newbi=
es, I sometimes use common names with lepidopterists and get funny looks.=
=C2=A0 Sorry guys and then I shift gears back again.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s hel=
pful to versatile enough to know both; especially when discussing and resea=
rching taxonomy or dealing with an audience with varied backgrounds. =C2=A0=
=C2=A0I try to get a feel for where people feel comfortable.=C2=A0 I like K=
en Davenport=E2=80=99s approach of typing both side by side when composing =
emails again to an audience with varied backgrounds.<o:p></o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Constantia=
",serif;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Constantia",serif;color:navy'>Thx, T=
odd<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0=
pt;font-family:"Constantia",serif;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Constantia=
",serif;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Constantia",serif;color:navy'>T=
odd L. Stout</span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New R=
oman",serif;color:navy'> <br></span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Constantia",serif;color:navy'>Raising Butterflies<o:p></o:p></span></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:navy'><a href=3D"https://store.=
raisingbutterflies.org/"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Const=
antia",serif'>https://store.raisingbutterflies.org</span></a></span><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Constantia",serif;color:navy'> </span=
><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:=
navy'>=C2=A0<br></span><span style=3D'color:navy'><a href=3D"http://www.rai=
singbutterflies.org/about-me/"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=
"Constantia",serif'>http://www.raisingbutterflies.org/about-me/</span></a><=
/span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;c=
olor:navy'> <br></span><span style=3D'color:navy'><a href=3D"mailto:todd@ra=
isingbutterflies.org"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Constant=
ia",serif'><todd...></span></a></span><span style=3D'font=
-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:navy'><br></span><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Constantia",serif;color:navy'>801=
-326-4683</span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roma=
n",serif;color:navy'> </span><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"=
Constantia",serif;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=
=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> <SoWestLep...> &lt;SoWestLep@ya=
hoogroups.com&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeff Pippen <jeffpippen9...> [So=
WestLep]<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, July 07, 2019 5:24 PM<br><b>To:</b> mattbr=
<ownbirds...><br><b>Cc:</b> <SoWestLep...><br><b>Subject:</=
b> Re: [SoWestLep] RFI: Butterfly taxonomy<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; <o:p></o:p>=
</p><div id=3Dygrp-mlmsg><div id=3Dygrp-msg><div id=3Dygrp-text><p>I=E2=80=
=99ll throw my 2 cents worth in here. &nbsp;I think the Pelham Catalog is t=
he most widely available and accepted, up-to-date butterfly scientific taxo=
nomic list for North America north of Mexico. &nbsp;It=E2=80=99s regularly =
updated and is available here (latest update April 2019):<o:p></o:p></p><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><a href=3D"http://www.butterfliesofamerica.com/US-Can-Cat.htm">http://www.=
butterfliesofamerica.com/US-Can-Cat.htm</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>For com=
mon names, it makes sense to me at least, to use the NABA common names as m=
uch as possible in order to =E2=80=9Cbridge the gap=E2=80=9D between =E2=80=
=9Ccollectors=E2=80=9D and &quot;watchers=E2=80=9D rather than widen it. &n=
bsp;Serious lepidopterists will use scientific names anyway, and using NABA=
common names (which are more widely available and known) makes it easier t=
o talk with and get =E2=80=9Cnew=E2=80=9D butterfly enthusiasts interested.=
&nbsp;With luck, we can get them collecting or helping with various resear=
ch and monitoring projects, whether collecting or not.<o:p></o:p></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Jeff<o:p></o:p></=
p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><div><div=
><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>--<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>J=
effrey S. Pippen<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
style=3D'color:black'>Durham, NC&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'><a href=3D"http://www.jeffpip=
pen.com/">http://www.jeffpippen.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><=
/div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><blockquote=
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>O=
n Jul 7, 2019, at 4:58 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:<mattbrownbirds...>">matt=
<brownbirds...></a> [SoWestLep] &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:SoWestLep-norepl=
<y...>"><SoWestLep-noreply...></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o=
:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div id=3Dygrp-=
mlmsg><div id=3Dygrp-msg><div id=3Dygrp-text><div style=3D'margin-bottom:12=
..0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Geo=
rgia",serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p style=3D'mso-margin-top-a=
lt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0in'><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Greetings SouthWestLepste=
rs-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0i=
n;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0in'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Georgia",serif'>I apologize if this is a na=C3=AFve query but I'v=
e done a little looking around and I'd like to know what is the most widely=
and currently accepted list of&nbsp; the taxonomic order of common and sci=
entific names of butterflies, including recognizable subspecies. The Pelham=
catalog is a bit unwieldy and, for me at least, difficult to follow (and 2=
014 is the most recent version I can find). Is the catalog even in the most=
widely accepted sequence? It places Hesperiidae first with Nymphalids last=
, as other</span><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>&nbsp;</span></span><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>more scientific =
sources do (including<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></spa=
n><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>RAB's partia=
lly alphabetic Annotated Checklist of AZ Butterflies), but reverses the pos=
ition of skippers found in more public sources such as field-guides and the=
NABA Checklist of North American Butterflies<span class=3Dapple-converted-=
space>&nbsp;</span>2.4 (also, I think, from 2014). I get starting with more=
colorful and flashy groupings and putting skippers last in a field-guide a=
nd checklist for convenience (and convention), but is there any scholarly v=
alidity in doing so? NABA seems to recognize itself as the source of accept=
able current nomenclature, and LepSoc has nothing available to non-members =
(I guess I could join and see what they say).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style=
=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-lef=
t:0in'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p><p style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;ma=
rgin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0in'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Georgia",serif'>So I'm just wondering if there has been compiled by a=
nyone (other than Pelham and his opus) a &quot;simple&quot; list of current=
ly and widely used species and subspecies names, both common and scientific=
, in the most recently deliberated taxonomic order. Maybe it's Glassberg et=
.. al.'s NABA list, but I don't know if it's in the most academically accept=
ed sequence. Thanks to anyone who can supply info, or even just read this.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;ma=
rgin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0in'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Georgia",serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p style=3D'mso-margin-to=
p-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0in'><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Matt Brown<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:1=
2.0pt;margin-left:0in'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia=
",serif'>Patagonia, AZ<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:=
0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0in'><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href=3D"mailto:mattbrownbir=
<ds...>"><span style=3D'font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>mattbrownbir=
<ds...></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt=
:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0in'><span style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>flickr:&nbsp;<a href=3D"https=
://flic.kr/ps/zUTe8" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'font-family:"Verdana"=
,sans-serif'>https://flic.kr/ps/zUTe8</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p st=
yle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-=
left:0in'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a h=
ref=3D"http://lifebirds.com/"><span style=3D'font-family:"Verdana",sans-ser=
if'>lifebirds.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><div style=3D'margin-bott=
om:12.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Georgia",serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div=
></blockquote></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:white'><o:p></o:p></span></p>=
</div></div>



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