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List: Carolina-Leps
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 11:08:31 -0500
From: Harry LeGrand (via carolinaleps Mailing List) <carolinaleps...>
Subject: Re: carolinaleps Digest Sat, 07 Mar 2020

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Thanks for the input from up your way. The issue in NC is: nobody is
studying the two species, or species complex, here in NC, to my knowledge.
To me -- in reviewing other people's photos -- is that some Eastern Tigers
downstate, or very late in the season in the mountains (say fresh ones in
July or August), are very large and can look quite a bit like what we know
as Appalachians.

Certainly, I wouldn't want to call that dark iNaturalist photo as an
Appalachian.

Harry LeGrand
Raleigh

On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 10:46 AM Rick Borchelt <carolinaleps...> wrote:

> Unlikely, in our experience with this (rather common here) swallowtail in
> MD. Dark *appalachiensis* are exceedingly rare, and it looks (from what
> I can tell from the dorsal views) like the VHW submarginal band is pretty
> narrow. Should be 1/4 or more of the width of the HW. But ID here is
> often confusing because we seem to be in the middle of a hybrid swarm zone
> and many Eastern/Appalachian tigers show a mixture of features; we're
> pretty conservative in calling *appalachiensis* unless there's a
> preponderance of diagnostic characteristics. Not sure what your mixture =
is
> in the Carolinas.
>
> On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 6:01 AM <carolinaleps-request...> wrote:
>
>> carolinaleps digest Sat, 07 Mar 2020
>>
>> Table of contents:
>>
>> * 1 - Tiger Swallowtails and Allies (Subgenus Pterourus) from Pisgah
>> National
>> Forest, Burnsville, NC, US on May 09, 2019 at 03:04 PM by j__lang =C2=
=B7
>> iNaturalist - Salman Abdulali <salman.abdulali...>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message-ID: <A823ADA4-30C2-4CFD-94D0-52E28843F4FB...>
>> Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2020 15:07:43 -0500
>> From: Salman Abdulali <salman.abdulali...>
>> Subject: Tiger Swallowtails and Allies (Subgenus Pterourus) from Pisgah
>> National Forest, Burnsville, NC, US on May 09, 2019 at 03:04 PM by
>> j__lang =C2=B7
>> iNaturalist
>>
>> Is this a dark form female Appalachian Tiger?
>>
>> >
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/249=
93000__;!!OToaGQ!7JqyqOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD73pZSaiEJ6pJ=
gEZEsN74Y$
>> <
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/249=
93000__;!!OToaGQ!7JqyqOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD73pZSaiEJ6pJ=
gEZEsN74Y$
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *********************************************
>>
>> End of carolinaleps Digest Sat, 07 Mar 2020
>>
>>
>
> --
> Rick Borchelt
> College Park, MD
> preferred personal email: rborchelt |AT| gmail |DOT| com
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://leplog.wordpress.com__;!!OToaGQ!96sM6l=
NRXVh-UnOTyDmFUJ0mLkounG11bLWGi-Yqi47SGOval4wGrTR0p7tZ_XKQoeI$=20
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://leplog.wordpress.com__;!!OToaGQ!5XD86=
khmk8sRYZHiefCpXR8A8vyOt2xWm8-5YGUqubEJHEfjd1grmajITzfnn7hlg8s$>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Thanks for the input from up your way.=C2=A0 The issu=
e in NC is:=C2=A0 nobody is studying the two species, or species complex, h=
ere in NC, to my knowledge.=C2=A0 To me -- in reviewing other people&#39;s =
photos -- is that some Eastern Tigers downstate, or very late in the season=
in the mountains (say fresh ones in July or August), are very large and ca=
n look quite a bit like what we know as Appalachians. <br></div><div><br></=
div><div>Certainly, I wouldn&#39;t want to call that dark iNaturalist photo=
as an Appalachian.=C2=A0 <br></div><div><br></div><div>Harry LeGrand</div>=
<div>Raleigh<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 10:46 AM Rick Borchelt &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:<carolinaleps...>"><carolinaleps...></a>&gt; wrote:<=
br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>Unlikely, in our experience with this (rather common here) swallowtail in =
MD.=C2=A0 Dark <i>appalachiensis</i> are exceedingly rare, and it looks (fr=
om what I can tell from the dorsal views) like the VHW submarginal band is =
pretty narrow.=C2=A0 Should be 1/4 or more of the width of the HW.=C2=A0 Bu=
t ID here is often confusing because we seem to be in the middle of a hybri=
d swarm zone and many Eastern/Appalachian tigers show a mixture of features=
; we&#39;re pretty conservative in calling <i>appalachiensis</i> unless the=
re&#39;s a preponderance of diagnostic characteristics.=C2=A0 Not sure what=
your mixture is in the Carolinas.<br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 6:01 AM &lt;<a=
href=3D"mailto:<carolinaleps-request...>" target=3D"_blank">carolinale=
<ps-request...></a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)=
;padding-left:1ex">carolinaleps digest Sat, 07 Mar 2020<br>
<br>
Table of contents:<br>
<br>
* 1 - Tiger Swallowtails and Allies (Subgenus Pterourus) from Pisgah Nation=
al<br>
=C2=A0 Forest, Burnsville, NC, US on May 09, 2019 at 03:04 PM by j__lang =
=C2=B7<br>
=C2=A0 iNaturalist - Salman Abdulali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:salman.abdulali@=
icloud.com" target=3D"_blank"><salman.abdulali...></a>&gt;<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message-ID: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:A823ADA4-30C2-4CFD-94D0-52E28843F4FB@iclo=
ud.com" target=3D"_blank"><A823ADA4-30C2-4CFD-94D0-52E28843F4FB...></=
a>&gt;<br>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2020 15:07:43 -0500<br>
From: Salman Abdulali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<salman.abdulali...>" tar=
get=3D"_blank"><salman.abdulali...></a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Tiger Swallowtails and Allies (Subgenus Pterourus) from Pisgah<br>
=C2=A0National Forest, Burnsville, NC, US on May 09, 2019 at 03:04 PM by j_=
_lang =C2=B7<br>
=C2=A0iNaturalist<br>
<br>
Is this a dark form female Appalachian Tiger?<br>
<br>
&gt;<br>
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observat=
ions/24993000__;!!OToaGQ!7JqyqOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD73pZ=
SaiEJ6pJgEZEsN74Y$" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://urldefense=
.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/24993000__;!!OToaGQ!7Jqy=
qOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD73pZSaiEJ6pJgEZEsN74Y$</a><br>
&lt;<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/obse=
rvations/24993000__;!!OToaGQ!7JqyqOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD=
73pZSaiEJ6pJgEZEsN74Y$" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://urldef=
ense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/24993000__;!!OToaGQ!=
7JqyqOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD73pZSaiEJ6pJgEZEsN74Y$</a><br=
>
&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
*********************************************<br>
<br>
End of carolinaleps Digest Sat, 07 Mar 2020<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr">Rick Borch=
elt<br>College Park, MD<br>preferred personal email: =C2=A0rborchelt |AT| g=
mail |DOT| com<br><br><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://leplog.=
wordpress.com__;!!OToaGQ!5XD86khmk8sRYZHiefCpXR8A8vyOt2xWm8-5YGUqubEJHEfjd1=
grmajITzfnn7hlg8s$" target=3D"_blank">http://leplog.wordpress.com</a></div>
</blockquote></div>

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