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List: Carolina-Leps
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 13:31:25 -0500
From: Salman Abdulali (via carolinaleps Mailing List) <carolinaleps...>
Subject: Re: carolinaleps Digest Sat, 07 Mar 2020


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Thanks for the feedback. I have never seen a female Appalachian Tiger, whet=
her yellow or black. However, comparing with

https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lepsurvey.carolinanature.com/ttr/ttr-6-1=
.pdf__;!!OToaGQ!4SuqrhXZZagsBd30K6ahPIJujMO72IoiW86GXBI1Q_YhdpuSY_PmB_5gymc=
E3ieo1a0$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lepsurvey.carolinanature.com=
/ttr/ttr-6-1.pdf__;!!OToaGQ!4SuqrhXZZagsBd30K6ahPIJujMO72IoiW86GXBI1Q_Yhdpu=
SY_PmB_5gymcE3ieo1a0$ >

I see the photo on iNaturalist

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/249930=
00__;!!OToaGQ!4SuqrhXZZagsBd30K6ahPIJujMO72IoiW86GXBI1Q_YhdpuSY_PmB_5gymcEu=
BJ9D8I$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observati=
ons/24993000__;!!OToaGQ!4SuqrhXZZagsBd30K6ahPIJujMO72IoiW86GXBI1Q_YhdpuSY_P=
mB_5gymcEuBJ9D8I$ >

as possibly Appalachian, based mainly on the wing shape and the reduced blu=
e on the dorsal hindwing.

Salman Abdulali
Greenville, NC

> On Mar 7, 2020, at 11:08 AM, Harry LeGrand (via carolinaleps Mailing List=
) <carolinaleps...> wrote:
>=20
> Thanks for the input from up your way. The issue in NC is: nobody is st=
udying the two species, or species complex, here in NC, to my knowledge. T=
o me -- in reviewing other people's photos -- is that some Eastern Tigers d=
ownstate, or very late in the season in the mountains (say fresh ones in Ju=
ly or August), are very large and can look quite a bit like what we know as=
Appalachians.=20
>=20
> Certainly, I wouldn't want to call that dark iNaturalist photo as an Appa=
lachian.=20=20
>=20
> Harry LeGrand
> Raleigh
>=20
> On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 10:46 AM Rick Borchelt <carolinaleps...> <mai=
lto:<carolinaleps...>> wrote:
> Unlikely, in our experience with this (rather common here) swallowtail in=
MD. Dark appalachiensis are exceedingly rare, and it looks (from what I c=
an tell from the dorsal views) like the VHW submarginal band is pretty narr=
ow. Should be 1/4 or more of the width of the HW. But ID here is often co=
nfusing because we seem to be in the middle of a hybrid swarm zone and many=
Eastern/Appalachian tigers show a mixture of features; we're pretty conser=
vative in calling appalachiensis unless there's a preponderance of diagnost=
ic characteristics. Not sure what your mixture is in the Carolinas.
>=20
> On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 6:01 AM <carolinaleps-request...> <mailto:car=
<olinaleps-request...>> wrote:
> carolinaleps digest Sat, 07 Mar 2020
>=20
> Table of contents:
>=20
> * 1 - Tiger Swallowtails and Allies (Subgenus Pterourus) from Pisgah Nati=
onal
> Forest, Burnsville, NC, US on May 09, 2019 at 03:04 PM by j__lang =C2=B7
> iNaturalist - Salman Abdulali <salman.abdulali...> <mailto:salma=
<n.abdulali...>>
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20
> Message-ID: <A823ADA4-30C2-4CFD-94D0-52E28843F4FB...> <mailto:A823=
<ADA4-30C2-4CFD-94D0-52E28843F4FB...>>
> Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2020 15:07:43 -0500
> From: Salman Abdulali <salman.abdulali...> <mailto:salman.abdulali=
@icloud.com>>
> Subject: Tiger Swallowtails and Allies (Subgenus Pterourus) from Pisgah
> National Forest, Burnsville, NC, US on May 09, 2019 at 03:04 PM by j__la=
ng =C2=B7
> iNaturalist
>=20
> Is this a dark form female Appalachian Tiger?
>=20
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/2499=
3000__;!!OToaGQ!7JqyqOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD73pZSaiEJ6pJg=
EZEsN74Y$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observat=
ions/24993000__;!!OToaGQ!7JqyqOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD73pZ=
SaiEJ6pJgEZEsN74Y$>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/249=
93000__;!!OToaGQ!7JqyqOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD73pZSaiEJ6pJ=
gEZEsN74Y$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observa=
tions/24993000__;!!OToaGQ!7JqyqOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD73p=
ZSaiEJ6pJgEZEsN74Y$>
> >
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------
>=20
> *********************************************
>=20
> End of carolinaleps Digest Sat, 07 Mar 2020
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> Rick Borchelt
> College Park, MD
> preferred personal email: rborchelt |AT| gmail |DOT| com
>=20
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://leplog.wordpress.com__;!!OToaGQ!4Suqrh=
XZZagsBd30K6ahPIJujMO72IoiW86GXBI1Q_YhdpuSY_PmB_5gymcEUj4UIH4$ <https://ur=
ldefense.com/v3/__http://leplog.wordpress.com__;!!OToaGQ!5XD86khmk8sRYZHief=
CpXR8A8vyOt2xWm8-5YGUqubEJHEfjd1grmajITzfnn7hlg8s$>

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=
=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: s=
pace; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Thanks for=
the feedback. I have never seen a female Appalachian Tiger, whether yellow=
or black. However, comparing with</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></di=
v><div class=3D""><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lepsurvey.c=
arolinanature.com/ttr/ttr-6-1.pdf__;!!OToaGQ!4SuqrhXZZagsBd30K6ahPIJujMO72I=
oiW86GXBI1Q_YhdpuSY_PmB_5gymcE3ieo1a0$" class=3D"">http://lepsurvey.carolin=
anature.com/ttr/ttr-6-1.pdf</a></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><=
div class=3D"">I see the photo on iNaturalist</div><div class=3D""><br clas=
s=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/=
/www.inaturalist.org/observations/24993000__;!!OToaGQ!4SuqrhXZZagsBd30K6ahP=
IJujMO72IoiW86GXBI1Q_YhdpuSY_PmB_5gymcEuBJ9D8I$" class=3D"">https://www.ina=
turalist.org/observations/24993000</a></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D"">=
</div><div class=3D"">as possibly Appalachian, based mainly on the wing sha=
pe and the reduced blue on the dorsal hindwing.</div><div class=3D""><br cl=
ass=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Salman Abdulali</div><div class=3D"">Greenvi=
lle, NC</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Mar 7, 2020, at 11:08 AM, Harry LeGrand (via carolinaleps Mai=
ling List) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<carolinaleps...>" class=3D"">carolina=
<leps...></a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><=
div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Thanks for the i=
nput from up your way.&nbsp; The issue in NC is:&nbsp; nobody is studying t=
he two species, or species complex, here in NC, to my knowledge.&nbsp; To m=
e -- in reviewing other people's photos -- is that some Eastern Tigers down=
state, or very late in the season in the mountains (say fresh ones in July =
or August), are very large and can look quite a bit like what we know as Ap=
palachians. <br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Certainly, I wouldn't want to call that dark iNaturalist photo a=
s an Appalachian.&nbsp; <br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""=
></div><div class=3D"">Harry LeGrand</div><div class=3D"">Raleigh<br class=
=3D""></div></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr=
" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 10:46 AM Rick Borchelt &lt;<a=
href=3D"mailto:<carolinaleps...>" class=3D""><carolinaleps...></a>=
&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Unlikely, in our experience with this (r=
ather common here) swallowtail in MD.&nbsp; Dark <i class=3D"">appalachiens=
is</i> are exceedingly rare, and it looks (from what I can tell from the do=
rsal views) like the VHW submarginal band is pretty narrow.&nbsp; Should be=
1/4 or more of the width of the HW.&nbsp; But ID here is often confusing b=
ecause we seem to be in the middle of a hybrid swarm zone and many Eastern/=
Appalachian tigers show a mixture of features; we're pretty conservative in=
calling <i class=3D"">appalachiensis</i> unless there's a preponderance of=
diagnostic characteristics.&nbsp; Not sure what your mixture is in the Car=
olinas.<br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 6:01 AM &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:<carolinaleps-request...>" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">caro=
<linaleps-request...></a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""></div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid=
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">carolinaleps digest Sat, 07 Mar 2020<br=
class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Table of contents:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
* 1 - Tiger Swallowtails and Allies (Subgenus Pterourus) from Pisgah Nation=
al<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; Forest, Burnsville, NC, US on May 09, 2019 at 03:04 PM by j__lang =
=C2=B7<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; iNaturalist - Salman Abdulali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:salman.abdulali@=
icloud.com" target=3D"_blank" class=3D""><salman.abdulali...></a>&gt;=
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br c=
lass=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Message-ID: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:A823ADA4-30C2-4CFD-94D0-52E28843F4FB@iclo=
ud.com" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">A823ADA4-30C2-4CFD-94D0-52E28843F4FB@i=
cloud.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2020 15:07:43 -0500<br class=3D"">
From: Salman Abdulali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<salman.abdulali...>" tar=
get=3D"_blank" class=3D""><salman.abdulali...></a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
Subject: Tiger Swallowtails and Allies (Subgenus Pterourus) from Pisgah<br =
class=3D"">
&nbsp;National Forest, Burnsville, NC, US on May 09, 2019 at 03:04 PM by j_=
_lang =C2=B7<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;iNaturalist<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Is this a dark form female Appalachian Tiger?<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observat=
ions/24993000__;!!OToaGQ!7JqyqOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD73pZ=
SaiEJ6pJgEZEsN74Y$" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">https:/=
/urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/24993000__;!!=
OToaGQ!7JqyqOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD73pZSaiEJ6pJgEZEsN74Y$=
</a><br class=3D"">
&lt;<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/obse=
rvations/24993000__;!!OToaGQ!7JqyqOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD=
73pZSaiEJ6pJgEZEsN74Y$" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">htt=
ps://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/24993000_=
_;!!OToaGQ!7JqyqOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD73pZSaiEJ6pJgEZEsN=
74Y$</a><br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
------------------------------<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
*********************************************<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
End of carolinaleps Digest Sat, 07 Mar 2020<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all" class=3D""><br class=3D"">-- <br class=
=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Rick Borchelt<br class=3D"">College Park,=
MD<br class=3D"">preferred personal email: &nbsp;rborchelt |AT| gmail |DOT=
| com<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttp://leplog.wordpress.com__;!!OToaGQ!5XD86khmk8sRYZHiefCpXR8A8vyOt2xWm8-5Y=
GUqubEJHEfjd1grmajITzfnn7hlg8s$" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">http://leplog=
.wordpress.com</a></div>
</blockquote></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=

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