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List: Carolina-Leps
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 13:42:15 -0500
From: Rick Borchelt (via carolinaleps Mailing List) <carolinaleps...>
Subject: Re: carolinaleps Digest Sat, 07 Mar 2020


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Harry Pavulaan would know best.=20

> On Mar 7, 2020, at 1:31 PM, Salman Abdulali <salman.abdulali...> =
wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Thanks for the feedback. I have never seen a female Appalachian Tiger, wh=
ether yellow or black. However, comparing with
>=20
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lepsurvey.carolinanature.com/ttr/ttr-6=
-1.pdf__;!!OToaGQ!-8S9Gz5U57XXzKq780JGuxsWUFgdz8I47zaDWIds_TCV4Ziie_LtGfPVO=
ZYsQtW0jIc$=20
>=20
> I see the photo on iNaturalist
>=20
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/2499=
3000__;!!OToaGQ!-8S9Gz5U57XXzKq780JGuxsWUFgdz8I47zaDWIds_TCV4Ziie_LtGfPVOZY=
s1gZv9TM$=20
>=20
> as possibly Appalachian, based mainly on the wing shape and the reduced b=
lue on the dorsal hindwing.
>=20
> Salman Abdulali
> Greenville, NC
>=20
>> On Mar 7, 2020, at 11:08 AM, Harry LeGrand (via carolinaleps Mailing Lis=
t) <carolinaleps...> wrote:
>>=20
>> Thanks for the input from up your way. The issue in NC is: nobody is s=
tudying the two species, or species complex, here in NC, to my knowledge. =
To me -- in reviewing other people's photos -- is that some Eastern Tigers =
downstate, or very late in the season in the mountains (say fresh ones in J=
uly or August), are very large and can look quite a bit like what we know a=
s Appalachians.=20
>>=20
>> Certainly, I wouldn't want to call that dark iNaturalist photo as an App=
alachian.=20=20
>>=20
>> Harry LeGrand
>> Raleigh
>>=20
>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 10:46 AM Rick Borchelt <carolinaleps...> wr=
ote:
>>> Unlikely, in our experience with this (rather common here) swallowtail =
in MD. Dark appalachiensis are exceedingly rare, and it looks (from what I=
can tell from the dorsal views) like the VHW submarginal band is pretty na=
rrow. Should be 1/4 or more of the width of the HW. But ID here is often =
confusing because we seem to be in the middle of a hybrid swarm zone and ma=
ny Eastern/Appalachian tigers show a mixture of features; we're pretty cons=
ervative in calling appalachiensis unless there's a preponderance of diagno=
stic characteristics. Not sure what your mixture is in the Carolinas.
>>>=20
>>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 6:01 AM <carolinaleps-request...> wrote:
>>>> carolinaleps digest Sat, 07 Mar 2020
>>>>=20
>>>> Table of contents:
>>>>=20
>>>> * 1 - Tiger Swallowtails and Allies (Subgenus Pterourus) from Pisgah N=
ational
>>>> Forest, Burnsville, NC, US on May 09, 2019 at 03:04 PM by j__lang =
=C2=B7
>>>> iNaturalist - Salman Abdulali <salman.abdulali...>
>>>>=20
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>=20
>>>> Message-ID: <A823ADA4-30C2-4CFD-94D0-52E28843F4FB...>
>>>> Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2020 15:07:43 -0500
>>>> From: Salman Abdulali <salman.abdulali...>
>>>> Subject: Tiger Swallowtails and Allies (Subgenus Pterourus) from Pisgah
>>>> National Forest, Burnsville, NC, US on May 09, 2019 at 03:04 PM by j_=
_lang =C2=B7
>>>> iNaturalist
>>>>=20
>>>> Is this a dark form female Appalachian Tiger?
>>>>=20
>>>> >
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/2=
4993000__;!!OToaGQ!7JqyqOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD73pZSaiEJ6=
pJgEZEsN74Y$
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/=
24993000__;!!OToaGQ!7JqyqOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD73pZSaiEJ=
6pJgEZEsN74Y$
>>>> >
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>=20
>>>> *********************************************
>>>>=20
>>>> End of carolinaleps Digest Sat, 07 Mar 2020
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> --=20
>>> Rick Borchelt
>>> College Park, MD
>>> preferred personal email: rborchelt |AT| gmail |DOT| com
>>>=20
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://leplog.wordpress.com__;!!OToaGQ!-8S9=
Gz5U57XXzKq780JGuxsWUFgdz8I47zaDWIds_TCV4Ziie_LtGfPVOZYssDA22gQ$=20
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=
=3Dutf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr">Harry Pavulaan would k=
now best.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Mar =
7, 2020, at 1:31 PM, Salman Abdulali &lt;<salman.abdulali...>&gt; wro=
te:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
=EF=BB=BF<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"><div class=3D"">Thanks for the feedback. I have never seen a female =
Appalachian Tiger, whether yellow or black. However, comparing with</div><d=
iv class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a href=3D"https://urlde=
fense.com/v3/__http://lepsurvey.carolinanature.com/ttr/ttr-6-1.pdf__;!!OToa=
GQ!-8S9Gz5U57XXzKq780JGuxsWUFgdz8I47zaDWIds_TCV4Ziie_LtGfPVOZYsQtW0jIc$" cl=
ass=3D"">http://lepsurvey.carolinanature.com/ttr/ttr-6-1.pdf</a></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I see the photo on iNatural=
ist</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a href=3D"ht=
tps://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/24993000=
__;!!OToaGQ!-8S9Gz5U57XXzKq780JGuxsWUFgdz8I47zaDWIds_TCV4Ziie_LtGfPVOZYs1gZ=
v9TM$" class=3D"">https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/24993000</a></di=
v><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">as possibly Appalach=
ian, based mainly on the wing shape and the reduced blue on the dorsal hind=
wing.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Salman Abdu=
lali</div><div class=3D"">Greenville, NC</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquo=
te type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Mar 7, 2020, at 11:08 AM, Ha=
rry LeGrand (via carolinaleps Mailing List) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:carolinal=
<eps...>" class=3D""><carolinaleps...></a>&gt; wrote:</div><br clas=
s=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""=
><div class=3D"">Thanks for the input from up your way.&nbsp; The issue in =
NC is:&nbsp; nobody is studying the two species, or species complex, here i=
n NC, to my knowledge.&nbsp; To me -- in reviewing other people's photos --=
is that some Eastern Tigers downstate, or very late in the season in the m=
ountains (say fresh ones in July or August), are very large and can look qu=
ite a bit like what we know as Appalachians. <br class=3D""></div><div clas=
s=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Certainly, I wouldn't want to c=
all that dark iNaturalist photo as an Appalachian.&nbsp; <br class=3D""></d=
iv><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Harry LeGrand</div>=
<div class=3D"">Raleigh<br class=3D""></div></div><br class=3D""><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 =
at 10:46 AM Rick Borchelt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<carolinaleps...>" clas=
s=3D""><carolinaleps...></a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""></div><blockquote=
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Unlikely=
, in our experience with this (rather common here) swallowtail in MD.&nbsp;=
Dark <i class=3D"">appalachiensis</i> are exceedingly rare, and it looks (=
from what I can tell from the dorsal views) like the VHW submarginal band i=
s pretty narrow.&nbsp; Should be 1/4 or more of the width of the HW.&nbsp; =
But ID here is often confusing because we seem to be in the middle of a hyb=
rid swarm zone and many Eastern/Appalachian tigers show a mixture of featur=
es; we're pretty conservative in calling <i class=3D"">appalachiensis</i> u=
nless there's a preponderance of diagnostic characteristics.&nbsp; Not sure=
what your mixture is in the Carolinas.<br class=3D""></div><br class=3D"">=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Ma=
r 7, 2020 at 6:01 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<carolinaleps-request...>" t=
arget=3D"_blank" class=3D""><carolinaleps-request...></a>&gt; wrote:<br=
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">carolin=
aleps digest Sat, 07 Mar 2020<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Table of contents:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
* 1 - Tiger Swallowtails and Allies (Subgenus Pterourus) from Pisgah Nation=
al<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; Forest, Burnsville, NC, US on May 09, 2019 at 03:04 PM by j__lang =
=C2=B7<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; iNaturalist - Salman Abdulali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:salman.abdulali@=
icloud.com" target=3D"_blank" class=3D""><salman.abdulali...></a>&gt;=
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br c=
lass=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Message-ID: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:A823ADA4-30C2-4CFD-94D0-52E28843F4FB@iclo=
ud.com" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">A823ADA4-30C2-4CFD-94D0-52E28843F4FB@i=
cloud.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2020 15:07:43 -0500<br class=3D"">
From: Salman Abdulali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<salman.abdulali...>" tar=
get=3D"_blank" class=3D""><salman.abdulali...></a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
Subject: Tiger Swallowtails and Allies (Subgenus Pterourus) from Pisgah<br =
class=3D"">
&nbsp;National Forest, Burnsville, NC, US on May 09, 2019 at 03:04 PM by j_=
_lang =C2=B7<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;iNaturalist<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Is this a dark form female Appalachian Tiger?<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observat=
ions/24993000__;!!OToaGQ!7JqyqOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD73pZ=
SaiEJ6pJgEZEsN74Y$" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">https:/=
/urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/24993000__;!!=
OToaGQ!7JqyqOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD73pZSaiEJ6pJgEZEsN74Y$=
</a><br class=3D"">
&lt;<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/obse=
rvations/24993000__;!!OToaGQ!7JqyqOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD=
73pZSaiEJ6pJgEZEsN74Y$" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">htt=
ps://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/24993000_=
_;!!OToaGQ!7JqyqOQkt8EkxuAIXebUykXwvnhFfAcARO6XOWXY9Jg-GD73pZSaiEJ6pJgEZEsN=
74Y$</a><br class=3D"">
&gt;<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
------------------------------<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
*********************************************<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
End of carolinaleps Digest Sat, 07 Mar 2020<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all" class=3D""><br class=3D"">-- <br class=
=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Rick Borchelt<br class=3D"">College Park,=
MD<br class=3D"">preferred personal email: &nbsp;rborchelt |AT| gmail |DOT=
| com<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttp://leplog.wordpress.com__;!!OToaGQ!5XD86khmk8sRYZHiefCpXR8A8vyOt2xWm8-5Y=
GUqubEJHEfjd1grmajITzfnn7hlg8s$" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">http://leplog=
.wordpress.com</a></div>
</blockquote></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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