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List: Carolina-Leps
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 14:04:26 -0400
From: \Bruce Grimes\ (via carolinaleps Mailing List) <carolinaleps...>
Subject: RE: Rare NC butterflies being sold on eBay

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Hi,

I have checked in Virginia with the National Forest folks who assured me that commercial collecting is illegal there at all times, and we are to report any suspected activity to their enforcement folks. We had seen a commercial operation in Canada selling species like Diana Fritillary advertised as coming from Virginia, and a retired professor who lived on the border of the National Forest had told us that every year he saw a camper truck with NY plates spending a period of time coincident with the flight period in the area.

Good luck with shutting them down.

I had long ago stopped reporting species that might be especially commercially attractive in public fora. To communicate these finds with those I know are not engaged in these practices, I use email or other private communications. With iNaturalist, the topic again arises, and I just do not report them, or keep it as private location data.

Bruce Grimes



From: <carolinaleps-request...> [mailto:<carolinaleps-request...>] On Behalf Of Sam Davis
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 9:53 AM
To: Derb Carter
Cc: <carolinaleps...>
Subject: Re: Rare NC butterflies being sold on eBay



Edit / correction on my earlier email:



Collecting as a scientist is illegal in a NF without a permit, but collecting for recreational use is not. Collecting in a National Park is illegal regardless without a permit.



But either way, reporting the rare species may get them taken down :)



Sam



On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:40 AM Sam Davis <sam...> wrote:

Hi all -



It may be worth going through and reporting items. You'll need an ebay account. Collecting on National Forests, like the West Virginia White specimen, is illegal without explicit permission from the park management.



I reported that one because it's my expertise, but I'm unsure on others.



Sam



On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:22 AM Derb Carter <derbc...> wrote:

There is a collector selling hundreds of specimens of rare butterflies on eBay, some up to $100 each. One of his main collecting sites appears to be North Carolina. "Brand new" specimens for sale from NC include Dusky Azure, Hessel's Hairstreak, Edward's Hairstreak, King's Hairstreak, Helicta Satyr, Georgia Satyr, Little Metalmark, Two-spotted Skipper, Duke's Skipper, and Green Comma. These species are rare and some imperiled and monitored by the state Natural Heritage Program. The site is at the link below.

I strongly suspect that the collector is a lurker on the Carolinaleps listserve. Otherwise, it would be nearly impossible to locate these rare species in NC, and the sighting reports on the listserve provide a collecting roadmap. Also, most of these rare species are very local and the known sites are in protected areas where collecting is prohibited or permits required. The Lepidopterists' Society statement on ethical collection of butterflies states collectors should consult with local experts before collecting rare or local species and obey all laws and restrictions. And collecting for science is one thing, but to sell on eBay is another

This makes me leery about reporting locations on future sightings of rare or imperiled species. As I strongly suspect the collector is reading this, as a North Carolinian concerned about our natural diversity, I ask you to take your business elsewhere.

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?item=254505588802 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?item=254505588802&_ssn=iau111&_pgn=15&_skc=700&rt=nc__;!!OToaGQ!-zJb9nRH9vuWvSMnGAl5Q2GgTwEyWOiLqxtT_EZukVVg2fZwcKY37Mxn2Q06rHgX3vY$> &_ssn=iau111&_pgn=15&_skc=700&rt=nc__;!!OToaGQ!-zJb9nRH9vuWvSMnGAl5Q2GgTwEyWOiLqxtT_EZukVVg2fZwcKY37Mxn2Q06rHgX3vY$

Derb Carter






--

Sam L. Davis, Ph.D.

Conservation Scientist

Dogwood Alliance

they/them/theirs

(828) 251-2525 ext. 19 (office)

(828) 380-2482 (cell)

----

Image removed by sender.






--

Sam L. Davis, Ph.D.

Conservation Scientist

Dogwood Alliance

they/them/theirs

(828) 251-2525 ext. 19 (office)

(828) 380-2482 (cell)

----

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi,<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have checked in Virginia with=
the National Forest folks who assured me that commercial collecting is ill=
egal there at all times, and we are to report any suspected activity to the=
ir enforcement folks.=C2=A0 We had seen a commercial operation in Canada se=
lling species like Diana Fritillary advertised as coming from Virginia, and=
a retired professor who lived on the border of the National Forest had tol=
d us that every year he saw a camper truck with NY plates spending a period=
of time coincident with the flight period in the area.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri=
","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Good luck with shutting them down.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I had long ago stopped reporting spe=
cies that might be especially commercially attractive in public fora. =C2=
=A0=C2=A0To communicate these finds with those I know are not engaged in th=
ese practices, I use email or other private communications.=C2=A0 With iNat=
uralist, the topic again arises, and I just do not report them, or keep it =
as private location data.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>=
Bruce Grimes<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <carolinaleps-request...> [mail=
to:<carolinaleps-request...>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Sam Davis<br><b>Sent:=
</b> Wednesday, June 24, 2020 9:53 AM<br><b>To:</b> Derb Carter<br><b>Cc:</=
b> <carolinaleps...><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Rare NC butterflies being s=
old on eBay<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Edit&nbsp;/ correction on my earlier email:&nbsp;=
<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p=
class=3DMsoNormal>Collecting as a scientist is illegal in a NF without a p=
ermit, but collecting for recreational use is not. Collecting in a National=
Park is illegal regardless without a permit.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>But e=
ither way, reporting the rare species may get them taken down :)<o:p></o:p>=
</p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal>Sam<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:40 AM S=
am Davis &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<sam...>">sam@dogwoodalliance=
.org</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;bo=
rder-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;m=
argin-right:0in'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi all -&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
>It may be worth going through and reporting items. You'll need an ebay acc=
ount. Collecting on National Forests, like the West Virginia White specimen=
, is illegal without explicit permission from the park management.<o:p></o:=
p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal>I reported that one because it's my expertise, but I'm unsu=
re on others.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sam<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:22 AM Derb Carter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:derbc@selcnc=
.org" target=3D"_blank"><derbc...></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div=
><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0=
in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal s=
tyle=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>There is a collector selling hundreds of spec=
imens of rare butterflies on eBay, some up to $100 each.&nbsp; One of his m=
ain collecting sites appears to be North Carolina.&nbsp; &quot;Brand new&qu=
ot; specimens for sale from NC include Dusky Azure, Hessel's Hairstreak, Ed=
ward's Hairstreak, King's Hairstreak, Helicta Satyr, Georgia Satyr, Little =
Metalmark, Two-spotted Skipper, Duke's Skipper, and Green Comma.&nbsp; Thes=
e species are rare and some imperiled and monitored by the state Natural He=
ritage Program.&nbsp; The site is at the link below.<br><br>I strongly susp=
ect that the collector is a lurker on the Carolinaleps listserve.&nbsp; Oth=
erwise, it would be nearly impossible to locate these rare species in NC, a=
nd the sighting reports on the listserve provide a collecting roadmap.&nbsp=
; Also, most of these rare species are very local and the known sites are i=
n protected areas where collecting is prohibited or permits required.&nbsp;=
The Lepidopterists' Society statement on ethical collection of butterflies=
states collectors should consult with local experts before collecting rare=
or local species and obey all laws and restrictions.&nbsp; And collecting =
for science is one thing, but to sell on eBay is another<br><br>This makes =
me leery about reporting locations on future sightings of rare or imperiled=
species.&nbsp; As I strongly suspect the collector is reading this, as a N=
orth Carolinian concerned about our natural diversity, I ask you to take yo=
ur business elsewhere.<br><br><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:=
/www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?item=3D254505588802&amp;_ssn=3Diau111&amp;_pgn=3D1=
5&amp;_skc=3D700&amp;rt=3Dnc__;!!OToaGQ!-zJb9nRH9vuWvSMnGAl5Q2GgTwEyWOiLqxt=
T_EZukVVg2fZwcKY37Mxn2Q06rHgX3vY$" target=3D"_blank">https://urldefense.com=
/v3/__https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?item=3D254505588802&amp;_ssn=3Diau111=
&amp;_pgn=3D15&amp;_skc=3D700&amp;rt=3Dnc__;!!OToaGQ!-zJb9nRH9vuWvSMnGAl5Q2=
GgTwEyWOiLqxtT_EZukVVg2fZwcKY37Mxn2Q06rHgX3vY$</a> <br><br>Derb Carter<o:p>=
</o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><br clear=3Dall><o:p></o:=
p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p=
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt'>Sam L. Davis, Ph.D.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:9=
.5pt'>Conservation Scientist<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt'>Dogwood Alliance<o:p></o:p></span></=
p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt'>they/them=
/theirs<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:9.5pt'>(828) 251-2525 ext. 19 (office)<o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt'>(828) 380-2482 =
(cell)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'=
font-size:9.5pt'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in'><=
img border=3D0 width=3D200 height=3D119 id=3D"_x0000_i1025" src=3D"cid:imag=
<e001.jpg...>" alt=3D"Image removed by sender."></span><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:9.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><br=
clear=3Dall><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=
</div><p class=3DMsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div>=
<div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt'>Sa=
m L. Davis, Ph.D.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:9.5pt'>Conservation Scientist<o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt'>Dogwood Allian=
ce<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font=
-size:9.5pt'>they/them/theirs<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt'>(828) 251-2525 ext. 19 (office)<o:p=
></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
9.5pt'>(828) 380-2482 (cell)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;border:solid windowtex=
t 1.0pt;padding:0in'><img border=3D0 width=3D200 height=3D119 id=3D"_x0000_=
i1026" src=3D"cid:<image001.jpg...>" alt=3D"Image removed by s=
ender."></span><span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>=

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