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List: Carolina-Leps
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 20:16:35 -0400
From: \Bruce Grimes\ (via carolinaleps Mailing List) <carolinaleps...>
Subject: RE: Rare NC butterflies being sold on eBay

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You can make the location data private.

Bruce



From: Pete Dixon [mailto:<pete555eliot...>]
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 5:19 PM
To: Bruce Grimes
Cc: Sam Davis; Derb Carter; carolinaleps
Subject: Re: Rare NC butterflies being sold on eBay



I have put some diana's up on iNaturalist in the last weeks, should I take em down?



On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 2:04 PM "Bruce Grimes" <carolinaleps...> wrote:

Hi,

I have checked in Virginia with the National Forest folks who assured me that commercial collecting is illegal there at all times, and we are to report any suspected activity to their enforcement folks. We had seen a commercial operation in Canada selling species like Diana Fritillary advertised as coming from Virginia, and a retired professor who lived on the border of the National Forest had told us that every year he saw a camper truck with NY plates spending a period of time coincident with the flight period in the area.

Good luck with shutting them down.

I had long ago stopped reporting species that might be especially commercially attractive in public fora. To communicate these finds with those I know are not engaged in these practices, I use email or other private communications. With iNaturalist, the topic again arises, and I just do not report them, or keep it as private location data.

Bruce Grimes



From: <carolinaleps-request...> [mailto:<carolinaleps-request...>] On Behalf Of Sam Davis
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 9:53 AM
To: Derb Carter
Cc: <carolinaleps...>
Subject: Re: Rare NC butterflies being sold on eBay



Edit / correction on my earlier email:



Collecting as a scientist is illegal in a NF without a permit, but collecting for recreational use is not. Collecting in a National Park is illegal regardless without a permit.



But either way, reporting the rare species may get them taken down :)



Sam



On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:40 AM Sam Davis <sam...> wrote:

Hi all -



It may be worth going through and reporting items. You'll need an ebay account. Collecting on National Forests, like the West Virginia White specimen, is illegal without explicit permission from the park management.



I reported that one because it's my expertise, but I'm unsure on others.



Sam



On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:22 AM Derb Carter <derbc...> wrote:

There is a collector selling hundreds of specimens of rare butterflies on eBay, some up to $100 each. One of his main collecting sites appears to be North Carolina. "Brand new" specimens for sale from NC include Dusky Azure, Hessel's Hairstreak, Edward's Hairstreak, King's Hairstreak, Helicta Satyr, Georgia Satyr, Little Metalmark, Two-spotted Skipper, Duke's Skipper, and Green Comma. These species are rare and some imperiled and monitored by the state Natural Heritage Program. The site is at the link below.

I strongly suspect that the collector is a lurker on the Carolinaleps listserve. Otherwise, it would be nearly impossible to locate these rare species in NC, and the sighting reports on the listserve provide a collecting roadmap. Also, most of these rare species are very local and the known sites are in protected areas where collecting is prohibited or permits required. The Lepidopterists' Society statement on ethical collection of butterflies states collectors should consult with local experts before collecting rare or local species and obey all laws and restrictions. And collecting for science is one thing, but to sell on eBay is another

This makes me leery about reporting locations on future sightings of rare or imperiled species. As I strongly suspect the collector is reading this, as a North Carolinian concerned about our natural diversity, I ask you to take your business elsewhere.

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?item=254505588802 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?item=254505588802&_ssn=iau111&_pgn=15&_skc=700&rt=nc__;!!OToaGQ!-zJb9nRH9vuWvSMnGAl5Q2GgTwEyWOiLqxtT_EZukVVg2fZwcKY37Mxn2Q06rHgX3vY$> &_ssn=iau111&_pgn=15&_skc=700&rt=nc__;!!OToaGQ!-zJb9nRH9vuWvSMnGAl5Q2GgTwEyWOiLqxtT_EZukVVg2fZwcKY37Mxn2Q06rHgX3vY$

Derb Carter






--

Sam L. Davis, Ph.D.

Conservation Scientist

Dogwood Alliance

they/them/theirs

(828) 251-2525 ext. 19 (office)

(828) 380-2482 (cell)

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Image removed by sender.






--

Sam L. Davis, Ph.D.

Conservation Scientist

Dogwood Alliance

they/them/theirs

(828) 251-2525 ext. 19 (office)

(828) 380-2482 (cell)

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You can make the location data private.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bruce<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Pete Dixon [mailto:<pete555eliot...>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 24, 2020 5:19 PM<br><b>To:</b> Bruce Grimes<br><b>Cc:</b> Sam Davis; Derb Carter; carolinaleps<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Rare NC butterflies being sold on eBay<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=Mso
Normal>I have put some&nbsp;diana's up on iNaturalist in the last weeks, should I take em&nbsp;down?<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 2:04 PM &quot;Bruce Grimes&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:<carolinaleps...>"><carolinaleps...></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have checked in Virginia with the National Forest folks who assured me that commercial collecting is illegal there at all times, and we are to report any suspected activity
to their enforcement folks.&nbsp; We had seen a commercial operation in Canada selling species like Diana Fritillary advertised as coming from Virginia, and a retired professor who lived on the border of the National Forest had told us that every year he saw a camper truck with NY plates spending a period of time coincident with the flight period in the area.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Good luck with shutting them down.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I had long ago stopped reporting species that might be especially commercially attractive in public fora. &nbsp;&nbsp;To communicate these finds with those I know are not engaged in these practices, I use email or other private communication
s.&nbsp; With iNaturalist, the topic again arises, and I just do not report them, or keep it as private location data.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bruce Grimes</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:<carolinaleps-request...>" target="_blank"><carolinaleps-request...></a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:<carolinaleps-request...>" target="_blank"><carolinaleps-request...></a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Sam Davis<br><b>Sent:</b> We
dnesday, June 24, 2020 9:53 AM<br><b>To:</b> Derb Carter<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:<carolinaleps...>" target="_blank"><carolinaleps...></a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Rare NC butterflies being sold on eBay</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Edit&nbsp;/ correction on my earlier email:&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Collecting as a scientist is illegal in a NF without a permit, but collecting for recreational use is not. Collecting in a National Park is illegal regardless without a permit.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=Ms
oNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>But either way, reporting the rare species may get them taken down :)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Sam<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:40 AM Sam Davis &lt;<a href="mailto:<sam...>" target="_blank"><sam...></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hi all -&nbsp;<o:p></o:
p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>It may be worth going through and reporting items. You'll need an ebay account. Collecting on National Forests, like the West Virginia White specimen, is illegal without explicit permission from the park management.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I reported that one because it's my expertise, but I'm unsure on others.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Sam<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:au
to;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:22 AM Derb Carter &lt;<a href="mailto:<derbc...>" target="_blank"><derbc...></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>There is a collector selling hundreds of specimens of rare butterflies on eBay, some up to $100 each.&nbsp; One of his main collecting sites appears to be North Carolina.&nbsp; &quot;Brand new&quot; specimens for sale from NC include Dusky Azure, Hessel's Hairstreak, Edward's Hairstreak, King's Hairstreak, Helicta Satyr, Georgia Satyr, Little Metalmark, Two-spotted Skipper, Duke's Skipper, and Green Comma.&nbsp; These species are rare and some imperiled and monitored b
y the state Natural Heritage Program.&nbsp; The site is at the link below.<br><br>I strongly suspect that the collector is a lurker on the Carolinaleps listserve.&nbsp; Otherwise, it would be nearly impossible to locate these rare species in NC, and the sighting reports on the listserve provide a collecting roadmap.&nbsp; Also, most of these rare species are very local and the known sites are in protected areas where collecting is prohibited or permits required.&nbsp; The Lepidopterists' Society statement on ethical collection of butterflies states collectors should consult with local experts before collecting rare or local species and obey all laws and restrictions.&nbsp; And collecting for science is one thing, but to sell on eBay is another<br><br>This makes me leery about reporting locations on future sightings of rare or imperiled species.&nbsp; As I strongly suspect the collector is reading this, as a North Carolinian concerned about our natural diversity, I ask you to take yo
ur business elsewhere.<br><br><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?item=254505588802&amp;_ssn=iau111&amp;_pgn=15&amp;_skc=700&amp;rt=nc__;!!OToaGQ!-zJb9nRH9vuWvSMnGAl5Q2GgTwEyWOiLqxtT_EZukVVg2fZwcKY37Mxn2Q06rHgX3vY$" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?item=254505588802&amp;_ssn=iau111&amp;_pgn=15&amp;_skc=700&amp;rt=nc__;!!OToaGQ!-zJb9nRH9vuWvSMnGAl5Q2GgTwEyWOiLqxtT_EZukVVg2fZwcKY37Mxn2Q06rHgX3vY$</a> <br><br>Derb Carter<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.5
pt'>Sam L. Davis, Ph.D.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>Conservation Scientist</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>Dogwood Alliance</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>they/them/theirs</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>(828) 251-2525 ext. 19 (office)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>(828) 380-2482 (cell)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>----</span><o:p></o:p>
</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.5pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in'><img border=0 width=200 height=119 id="gmail-m_4309897921523577607_x005f_x0000_i1025" src="cid:<image001.jpg...>" alt="Image removed by sender."></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>Sam L. Davis, Ph.D.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>Conservation Scientist</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>Dogwood Alliance</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>they/them/theirs</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>(828) 251-2525 ext. 19 (office)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>(828) 380-2482 (cell)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='
font-size:9.5pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in'><img border=0 width=200 height=119 id="gmail-m_4309897921523577607_x005f_x0000_i1026" src="cid:<image001.jpg...>" alt="Image removed by sender."></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>
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