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List: Carolina-Leps
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2020 12:33:27 -0400
From: Loretta Lutman <butterflies_bg...>
Subject: Monarch watch and milkweed


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In reference to my posting of A syriaca, and A tuberosa producing non poiso=
nous adults. I received a suggestion from
Charlie Cameron that Monarch Watch may have that information. Searching f=
or cartenolide levels, rather than toxicity would lead to a more direct ans=
wer.=20=20

I made an inquiry on Monarch Watch page, under the comment section with the=
following question: =E2=80=9CSince A. syriaca and A. tuberosa produce rel=
atively nonpoisonous adults, (L. Brower & M. Rothchild, what is the best mi=
lkweed species to increase protection of Monarchs? Is information availabl=
e as to cartenolide levels in milkweed species?=E2=80=9D

To my surprise, I received the following answer within 24 hours. Monarch =
Watch <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.facebook.com/monarchwatch/?c=
omment_id=3DY29tbWVudDoxMDE1ODU5MzU1MzM0NTExNV8xMDE1ODYwMzU4NTgyMDExNQ*3D*3=
D__;JSU!!OToaGQ!4nJ7Y2GfSxQgbgdbjASIeO0dNOYRjdkeJjKTJvjmToJsXXIeSQ2fgjmnXVq=
MyqNHTmg$ > Dr. Jaap deRoode is studying this at Emory University. https://=
urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.biology.emory.edu/index.cfm?faculty=3D24__;!=
!OToaGQ!4nJ7Y2GfSxQgbgdbjASIeO0dNOYRjdkeJjKTJvjmToJsXXIeSQ2fgjmnXVqMEocN9Zk=
$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.biology.emory.edu/index.cfm?facu=
lty=3D24&fbclid=3DIwAR1aY7fXetMZOQ0-kZVauE8KP1XoPDzdKTyWHNCU51BOBoOYN_YwWij=
HWz8__;!!OToaGQ!4nJ7Y2GfSxQgbgdbjASIeO0dNOYRjdkeJjKTJvjmToJsXXIeSQ2fgjmnXVq=
MictEwo4$ >
=E2=80=98 "'=E2=80=98 "Hide or report this

In reference to an entry today, 9/01 by Dennis Burnette, I have also raised=
Oxypetalum caeruleum, several times, with never
having any Monarch eggs on the plant. As to the study - color me dense - a=
rticle not in layman=E2=80=99s terms.

Loretta Lutman






> Begin forwarded message:
>=20
> From: Dennis Burnette <deburnette...>
> Subject: FW: Monarch Caterpillars and Milkweed Species
> Date: October 1, 2020 at 8:46:15 AM EDT
> To: CBS Triad Chap A-J <deburnette...>, CBS Triad Chap K-Z <deb=
<urnette...>
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 9/30/20, 2:22 PM, ""Lori M. Carlson" (via carolinaleps Mailing
> List)" <carolinaleps-request...> on behalf of <carolinaleps...>
> wrote:
>=20
>> My experience of raising Monarch caterpillars is similar, if not
>> identical, to
>> Cyndy's experience that she shared with us in her reply. This year I have
>> taken in at least 100 Monarch caterpillars from 4 different sources as
>> part of
>> our Caterpillar Support program at Backyard Butterflies. Whatever their
>> original species of milkweed they easily transitioned to eating whatever=
I
>> provided them which was a mixture of A. syriaca, A. tuberosa, A.
>> curassavica,
>> and Gomphocarpus physocarpus. I've never had a caterpillar refuse to eat
>> what
>> has been provided.
>>=20
>> I've also grown Oxypetalum caeruleum, the blue flower milkweed vine, that
>> Cyndy mentions. The females would taste-test the plant but not lay eggs
>> on it.
>>=20
>> What stands out for me about the use of the words noxious or toxic levels
>> of
>> cardiac glycoside in milkweeds sounds like it is being used in relation =
to
>> humans, livestock, pets, or birds (and other predators) who would eat the
>> caterpillars, not Monarch caterpillars themselves. If those words are
>> being
>> used in relation to toxicity to Monarch caterpillars, that sounds like to
>> me a
>> non-sequitur because Monarch caterpillars are able to metabolize the
>> toxins as
>> well as sequester them as a defense mechanism. Switching between low to
>> high
>> or high to low concentrations of toxins is a moot point.
>>=20
>> If there is concern about the adult butterfly is not having enough toxin
>> in
>> their diet to deter predation, it is interesting to note what Loretta
>> provided
>> about those Monarchs raised on A. syriaca and A. tuberosa producing
>> relatively
>> non-poisonous adults. These are the favored "go to" natives that many
>> want to
>> use to support Monarchs. If I'm reading the results of this study
>> correctly
>> (link provided below) it appears that A. curassavica (the notorious
>> maligned
>> Tropical Milkweed) results in high levels of sequestered toxins in the
>> caterpillar which I assume carries over into the adult.
>>=20
>> Reference: Milkweed butterfly resistance to plant toxins is linked to
>> sequestration, not coping with a toxic diet:
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PM=
C4650158/__;!!OToaGQ!4nJ7Y2GfSxQgbgdbjASIeO0dNOYRjdkeJjKTJvjmToJsXXIeSQ2fgj=
mnXVqM3xDbEqY$=20
>>=20
>> ~ LMCarlson
>=20
>=20


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html charset=
=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: s=
pace; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">In=
reference to my posting of A syriaca, and A tuberosa producing non poisono=
us adults. &nbsp;I received a suggestion from</div><div class=3D"">Charlie =
Cameron that Monarch Watch &nbsp;may have that information. &nbsp;Searching=
for cartenolide levels, rather than toxicity would lead to a more direct a=
nswer. &nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I m=
ade an inquiry on Monarch Watch page, under the comment section with the fo=
llowing question: &nbsp;=E2=80=9CSince A. syriaca and A. tuberosa produce r=
elatively nonpoisonous adults, (L. Brower &amp; M. Rothchild, what is the b=
est milkweed species to increase protection of Monarchs? &nbsp;Is informati=
on available as to cartenolide levels in milkweed species?=E2=80=9D</div><d=
iv class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">To my surprise, I receiv=
ed the following answer within 24 hours. &nbsp;&nbsp;<a class=3D"_6qw4" dat=
a-hovercard=3D"/ajax/hovercard/user.php?id=3D86195995114&amp;extragetparams=
=3D{&quot;directed_target_id&quot;: &quot; &quot;}" href=3D"https://urldefe=
nse.com/v3/__https://www.facebook.com/monarchwatch/?comment_id=3DY29tbWVudD=
oxMDE1ODU5MzU1MzM0NTExNV8xMDE1ODYwMzU4NTgyMDExNQ*3D*3D__;JSU!!OToaGQ!4nJ7Y2=
GfSxQgbgdbjASIeO0dNOYRjdkeJjKTJvjmToJsXXIeSQ2fgjmnXVqMyqNHTmg$" style=3D"or=
phans: 2; widows: 2; font-family: inherit; line-height: 16px; color: rgb(56=
, 88, 152); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none; font-weight: 600;">Mona=
rch Watch</a><span style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2; font-family: inherit; li=
ne-height: 16px; color: rgb(28, 30, 33);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span dir=
=3D"ltr" style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2; font-family: inherit; line-height:=
16px; color: rgb(28, 30, 33);" class=3D""><span class=3D"_3l3x" style=3D"f=
ont-family: inherit;"><span style=3D"font-family: inherit;" class=3D"">Dr. =
Jaap deRoode is studying this at Emory University.&nbsp;</span><a target=3D=
"_blank" href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.biology.emory.edu/i=
ndex.cfm?faculty=3D24&amp;fbclid=3DIwAR1aY7fXetMZOQ0-kZVauE8KP1XoPDzdKTyWHN=
CU51BOBoOYN_YwWijHWz8__;!!OToaGQ!4nJ7Y2GfSxQgbgdbjASIeO0dNOYRjdkeJjKTJvjmTo=
JsXXIeSQ2fgjmnXVqMictEwo4$" rel=3D"nofollow noopener" data-lynx-mode=3D"asy=
nclazy" data-lynx-uri=3D"https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
biology.emory.edu%2Findex.cfm%3Ffaculty%3D24%26fbclid%3DIwAR1aY7fXetMZOQ0-k=
ZVauE8KP1XoPDzdKTyWHNCU51BOBoOYN_YwWijHWz8&amp;h=3DAT2anYkTOzYWApToALunPGX3=
4yv2wbG71iJGQEsz8h_k3pkgauSA5dAeVVAS9CJqZfqOv6Bn9dcer6FeLPs-b8qjV-_1se5E16Y=
WgcA850SYuICswwRMJLG5IZlTFvIHF5KEkAHfVXLGVNNdtmomzWI1zA" style=3D"color: rg=
b(56, 88, 152); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none; font-family: inheri=
t;" class=3D"">http://www.biology.emory.edu/index.cfm?faculty=3D24</a></spa=
n></span></div><div class=3D"_2h2j" style=3D"margin-top: -10px; padding: 8p=
x 0px 0px 54px; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif=
; color: rgb(28, 30, 33); font-size: 13px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; backgroun=
d-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><ul style=3D"list-style-type: none; margin: 0=
px; padding: 0px;" class=3D""><li class=3D""><div style=3D"font-family: inh=
erit;" class=3D""><div aria-label=3D"Comment reply" role=3D"article" class=
=3D"_4efk clearfix _4eek" data-ft=3D"{&quot;tn&quot;:&quot;R&quot;,&quot;ct=
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=3D&quot;}" left=3D"[object Object]" right=3D"[object Object]" direction=3D=
"left" style=3D"zoom: 1; padding: 4px 12px 4px 8px; line-height: 16px; posi=
tion: relative; font-family: inherit;"><div class=3D"" style=3D"font-family=
: inherit;"><div class=3D"_42ef" style=3D"overflow: hidden; font-family: in=
herit;"><div style=3D"font-family: inherit;" class=3D""><div class=3D"_6c7j=
" style=3D"display: inline-block; vertical-align: middle; width: 22px; font=
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e-block; vertical-align: middle; font-family: inherit;"><button tooltip=3D"=
Hide or report this" class=3D"_p _2f3a _xw0 _xw9 _5upp _42ft" type=3D"butto=
n" data-hover=3D"tooltip" data-tooltip-alignh=3D"center" data-tooltip-conte=
nt=3D"Hide or report this" role=3D"button" style=3D"font-family: inherit; m=
argin: 0px 0px 0px 10px; opacity: 0; height: 12px; width: 12px; cursor: poi=
nter; white-space: nowrap; border: 0px none; overflow: hidden; padding: 0px=
; vertical-align: middle; background-image: url(applewebdata://26232BCB-503=
B-4F1B-B339-C03BDEB51AF0/rsrc.php/v3/yQ/r/peDJUrH-Iou.png); background-size=
: auto; font-size: 0px !important; background-position: -39px -2506px; back=
ground-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat;"><span style=3D"font-family: 'Times New=
Roman'; font-size: 18px; orphans: auto; widows: auto; background-color: rg=
b(255, 255, 255);" class=3D"">=E2=80=98 "</span>'=E2=80=98 "Hide or report =
this</button></div></div></div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></di=
v></div></div></div></li></ul></div><div class=3D"">In reference to an entr=
y today, 9/01 by Dennis Burnette, I have also raised Oxypetalum caeruleum, =
several times, with never</div><div class=3D"">having any Monarch eggs on t=
he plant. &nbsp;As to the study - color me dense - article not in layman=E2=
=80=99s terms.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Lo=
retta Lutman</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br c=
lass=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""><b=
lockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Begin forwarded message:=
</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px=
; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><spa=
n style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, san=
s-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">From: </b></sp=
an><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helveti=
ca, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Dennis Burnette &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:deburnett=
<e...>" class=3D""><deburnette...></a>&gt;<br class=3D""></=
span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:=
0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-sys=
tem-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"=
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -=
webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b c=
lass=3D"">FW: Monarch Caterpillars and Milkweed Species</b><br class=3D""><=
/span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom=
: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-sy=
stem-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);=
" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Date: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -we=
bkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Octobe=
r 1, 2020 at 8:46:15 AM EDT<br class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin=
-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=
=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helv=
etica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">To: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue,=
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">CBS Triad Chap A-J &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:<deburnette...>" class=3D""><deburnette...></a>&gt;, CBS =
Triad Chap K-Z &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<deburnette...>" class=3D"">de=
<burnette...></a>&gt;<br class=3D""></span></div><br class=3D""><di=
v class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">On 9/30/20, 2:22 PM, ""Lori M. C=
arlson" &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(via carolinaleps Mailing<br class=3D"">List)" &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:<carolinaleps-request...>" class=3D"">carolinaleps-=
<request...></a> on behalf of <a href=3D"mailto:<carolinaleps...>" =
class=3D""><carolinaleps...></a>&gt;<br class=3D"">wrote:<br class=3D""=
><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">My experience of raisi=
ng Monarch caterpillars is similar, if not<br class=3D"">identical, to<br c=
lass=3D"">Cyndy's experience that she shared with us in her reply. This yea=
r I have<br class=3D"">taken in at least 100 Monarch caterpillars from 4 di=
fferent sources as<br class=3D"">part of<br class=3D"">our Caterpillar Supp=
ort program at Backyard Butterflies. Whatever their<br class=3D"">original =
species of milkweed they easily transitioned to eating whatever I<br class=
=3D"">provided them which was a mixture of A. syriaca, A. tuberosa, A.<br c=
lass=3D"">curassavica,<br class=3D"">and Gomphocarpus physocarpus. I've nev=
er had a caterpillar refuse to eat<br class=3D"">what<br class=3D"">has bee=
n provided.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I've also grown Oxypetalum caerule=
um, the blue flower milkweed vine, that<br class=3D"">Cyndy mentions. The f=
emales would taste-test the plant but not lay eggs<br class=3D"">on it.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">What stands out for me about the use of the words=
noxious or toxic levels<br class=3D"">of<br class=3D"">cardiac glycoside i=
n milkweeds sounds like it is being used in relation to<br class=3D"">human=
s, livestock, pets, or birds (and other predators) who would eat the<br cla=
ss=3D"">caterpillars, not Monarch caterpillars themselves. If those words a=
re<br class=3D"">being<br class=3D"">used in relation to toxicity to Monarc=
h caterpillars, that sounds like to<br class=3D"">me a<br class=3D"">non-se=
quitur because Monarch caterpillars are able to metabolize the<br class=3D"=
">toxins as<br class=3D"">well as sequester them as a defense mechanism. Sw=
itching between low to<br class=3D"">high<br class=3D"">or high to low conc=
entrations of toxins is a moot point.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">If there=
is concern about the adult butterfly is not having enough toxin<br class=
=3D"">in<br class=3D"">their diet to deter predation, it is interesting to =
note what Loretta<br class=3D"">provided<br class=3D"">about those Monarchs=
raised on A. syriaca and A. tuberosa producing<br class=3D"">relatively<br=
class=3D"">non-poisonous adults. These are the favored "go to" natives tha=
t many<br class=3D"">want to<br class=3D"">use to support Monarchs. If I'm =
reading the results of this study<br class=3D"">correctly<br class=3D"">(li=
nk provided below) it appears that A. curassavica (the notorious<br class=
=3D"">maligned<br class=3D"">Tropical Milkweed) results in high levels of s=
equestered toxins in the<br class=3D"">caterpillar which I assume carries o=
ver into the adult.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Reference: Milkweed butter=
fly resistance to plant toxins is linked to<br class=3D"">sequestration, no=
t coping with a toxic diet:<br class=3D""><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com=
/v3/__https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4650158/__;!!OToaGQ!4nJ7=
Y2GfSxQgbgdbjASIeO0dNOYRjdkeJjKTJvjmToJsXXIeSQ2fgjmnXVqM3xDbEqY$" class=3D"=
">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4650158/</a><br class=3D""><=
br class=3D"">~ LMCarlson<br class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D""><br cla=
ss=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=

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