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List: Carolina-Leps
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 17:26:05 -0400
From: Jan Hansen (via carolinaleps Mailing List) <carolinaleps...>
Subject: Re: march leps + question(s) about azures


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Hi Jeff and everyone,

I was not aware that Summer Azures have been documented using hollies, and =
given that information, I=E2=80=99m wondering if any azure in the Coastal P=
lain should be reported as Summer/ Holly Azure if a diagnostic photo isn=E2=
=80=99t provided.=20

I have been operating under the assumption that an azure that is hanging ar=
ound and seemingly attracted to a holly can be safely called a Holly Azure,=
but now that seems like a faulty assumption. Perhaps a better assumption i=
s that it is highly likely to be a Holly Azure, but could be a Summer Azur=
e, and given that possibility, regardless of how slim, is it better to simp=
ly report Holly/Summer Azure?

I=E2=80=99m reminded of the =E2=80=9CWestern Flycatcher=E2=80=9D complex in=
the birding world. I feel confident that any =E2=80=9Cwestern type=E2=80=
=9D flycatcher that turns up in the east is almost certainly a Pacific-slop=
e Flycatcher, but unless I hear it I can=E2=80=99t rule out the possibility=
of it being a Cordilleran. Hence I am unwilling to label any non-vocalizin=
g member of this complex, despite knowing that the odds heavily favor Pacif=
ic-slope given its tendency to wander widely versus the more sedentary natu=
re of Cordilleran.=20

It sounds as though I should be treating Summer and Holly Azures in the sam=
e way. Any thoughts on this conundrum would be appreciated.=20



Jan Hansen
Chapel Hill NC
919-259-9423
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.otusasiotours.com__;!!OToaGQ!4X-J5y4=
0iiK6cFjqFdVSJxqKMKnFMK0j6CYPZQ6ytiRDVDN177hzB90Yb731L5In2O8$=20

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 29, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Jeff Pippen <carolinaleps...> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BFHi Matt and All,
>=20
> Great questions and nice sightings!
>=20
> Regarding posting every sighting, common or rare, yes, if you would like =
to do that, we are always happy to read them! Harry LeGrand additionally r=
ecords the data in a master spreadsheet he uses to update the annual Notes =
on the Butterflies of NC Approximation by him and Tom Howard. Personally, =
if there=E2=80=99s only a few common things on a day=E2=80=99s list, I don=
=E2=80=99t post them, but I enter them into a spreadsheet that I send to Ha=
rry & Tom at the end of the year, so they end up with a complete record of =
all my sightings. I=E2=80=99m sure they=E2=80=99d be happy to have you do =
that as well, if you=E2=80=99d like.
>=20
> Re: your azures, to be SURE, you would want to get a good photo/specimen =
of the upper sides. Both Summer and Holly Azures can use American Holly for=
a host plant, and Spring Azure could certainly be on the wing now, too. N=
ote that the use of hollies by Summer Azure is a relatively newly documente=
d phenomenon so may not be in the references.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Jeff
> --
> Jeffrey S. Pippen
> Durham, NC=20
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.jeffpippen.com/__;!!OToaGQ!4X-J5y4=
0iiK6cFjqFdVSJxqKMKnFMK0j6CYPZQ6ytiRDVDN177hzB90Yb731pYmbh5I$=20
>=20
>> On Mar 29, 2021, at 8:00 AM, Matt Spangler (via carolinaleps Mailing Lis=
t) <carolinaleps...> wrote:
>>=20
>> I=E2=80=99m relatively new to the listserv and trying to get a feel for =
whether to report every single sighting, or only rare sightings, or only im=
pressive double-digit checklists, etc. I haven=E2=80=99t seen too many leps=
so far this year, so I figured I=E2=80=99d wait to send an email until I s=
aw some =E2=80=9Cgood=E2=80=9D ones.=20
>>=20=20
>> On 3/28, at the Sandhills Community College gardens (Moore Co) I saw the=
following:
>> ETS 3
>> Cloudless Sulphur 2
>> Henry=E2=80=99s Elfin 3 (one ovipositing on Am. Holly)
>> Azure sp. 2.
>>=20=20
>> I have a question about the azures. Two of them were flying high around =
one or two American Hollies, occasionally landing near the top (but only fo=
r an instant) (perhaps ovipositing, but I couldn=E2=80=99t tell), then depa=
rting to continue circling the area, always sticking close to the holly tre=
es. Do you think it=E2=80=99s safe to call the azures Holly Azures given th=
eir affinity for the hollies, or might they be spring-form Summers? I read =
over the reference material that Salman shared earlier this spring, and it =
seems that either are possible. I got some poor quality pictures; I expect =
they will not be helpful, but here they are anyway: https://urldefense.com/=
v3/__https://www.e-butterfly.org/ebapp/en/checklists/view/107716__;!!OToaGQ=
!4X-J5y40iiK6cFjqFdVSJxqKMKnFMK0j6CYPZQ6ytiRDVDN177hzB90Yb731--ICwpU$ .
>>=20=20
>>=20=20
>> Other sightings from March:
>>=20=20
>> 3/27, Orange Co, Occoneechee Mountain SNA
>> ETS 1
>> Azure sp. 1 (Another azure question=E2=80=94is it safe to call these spr=
ing-form Summer? Does anyone have more precise date ranges for when Spring =
Azures fly in the piedmont?)
>> (no elfins)
>>=20=20
>> 3/26 Chatham Co, Home
>> Falcate Orangetip 2
>> ETS 1
>>=20=20
>> 3/22 Chatham Co, Jordan Lake ESF
>> ETS 1
>>=20=20
>> 3/18 Chatham Co, Home
>> Falcate Orangetip 1=20
>>=20=20
>> 3/14 Chatham Co, Home
>> Question Mark 1
>> Falcate Orangetip 1
>> Azure sp. 1 (same question as above, but from 3/14)
>>=20=20
>> 3/14 Chatham Co, Jordan Lake ESF
>> Azure sp. 4 (same)
>>=20=20
>> 3/12 Pender Co, Holly Shelter GL
>> Cloudless Sulphur 2
>>=20=20
>> 3/9 Chatham Co, Home
>> Question Mark 1
>>=20=20
>> Best,
>>=20=20
>> Matt Spangler
>> Chatham Co, NC
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://spanglerwoodbirds.com__;!!OToaGQ!4X-=
J5y40iiK6cFjqFdVSJxqKMKnFMK0j6CYPZQ6ytiRDVDN177hzB90Yb731ve_oT9k$=20
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=
=3Dutf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Hi Jeff and everyone,<div><br></div><di=
v>I was not aware that Summer Azures have been documented using hollies, an=
d given that information, I=E2=80=99m wondering if any azure in the Coastal=
Plain should be reported as Summer/ Holly Azure if a diagnostic photo isn=
=E2=80=99t provided.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I have been operating u=
nder the assumption that an azure that is hanging around and seemingly attr=
acted to a holly can be safely called a Holly Azure, but now that seems lik=
e a faulty assumption. Perhaps a better assumption is that it is highly lik=
ely to be a Holly Azure, but could &nbsp;be a Summer Azure, and given that =
possibility, regardless of how slim, is it better to simply report Holly/Su=
mmer Azure?</div><div><br></div><div>I=E2=80=99m reminded of the =E2=80=9CW=
estern Flycatcher=E2=80=9D complex in the birding world. I feel confident t=
hat any =E2=80=9Cwestern type=E2=80=9D flycatcher that turns up in the east=
is almost certainly a Pacific-slope Flycatcher, but unless I hear it I can=
=E2=80=99t rule out the possibility of it being a Cordilleran. Hence I am u=
nwilling to label any non-vocalizing member of this complex, despite knowin=
g that the odds heavily favor Pacific-slope given its tendency to wander wi=
dely versus the more sedentary nature of Cordilleran.&nbsp;</div><div><br><=
/div><div>It sounds as though I should be treating Summer and Holly Azures =
in the same way. Any thoughts on this conundrum would be appreciated.&nbsp;=
</div><div><br></div><div><br><br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Jan Hansen</div><di=
v>Chapel Hill NC</div><div>919-259-9423</div><div><a href=3D"https://urldef=
ense.com/v3/__http://www.otusasiotours.com__;!!OToaGQ!4X-J5y40iiK6cFjqFdVSJ=
xqKMKnFMK0j6CYPZQ6ytiRDVDN177hzB90Yb731L5In2O8$">www.otusasiotours.com</a><=
/div><div><br></div>Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquo=
te type=3D"cite">On Mar 29, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Jeff Pippen &lt;carolinaleps=
@duke.edu&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/h=
tml charset=3Dutf-8">Hi Matt and All,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><=
div class=3D"">Great questions and nice sightings!</div><div class=3D""><br=
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Regarding posting every sighting, common =
or rare, yes, if you would like to do that, we are always happy to read the=
m! &nbsp;Harry LeGrand additionally records the data in a master spreadshee=
t he uses to update the annual Notes on the Butterflies of NC Approximation=
by him and Tom Howard. &nbsp;Personally, if there=E2=80=99s only a few com=
mon things on a day=E2=80=99s list, I don=E2=80=99t post them, but I enter =
them into a spreadsheet that I send to Harry &amp; Tom at the end of the ye=
ar, so they end up with a complete record of all my sightings. &nbsp;I=E2=
=80=99m sure they=E2=80=99d be happy to have you do that as well, if you=E2=
=80=99d like.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Re:=
your azures, to be SURE, you would want to get a good photo/specimen of th=
e upper sides. Both Summer and Holly Azures can use American Holly for a ho=
st plant, and Spring Azure could certainly be on the wing now, too. &nbsp;N=
ote that the use of hollies by Summer Azure is a relatively newly documente=
d phenomenon so may not be in the references.</div><div class=3D""><br clas=
s=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Cheers,</div><div class=3D"">Jeff<br class=3D"=
"><div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; t=
ext-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norm=
al; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-w=
rap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-=
space;" class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: norma=
l; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none=
; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke=
-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-=
break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">--</d=
iv><div class=3D"">Jeffrey S. Pippen</div><div class=3D"">Durham, NC&nbsp;<=
/div><div class=3D""><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.jeff=
pippen.com/__;!!OToaGQ!4_3p8J4gVlbbxxii-PLBqsOFbFpogQ-U3yflXPMVWEYiqGtJbCCj=
EnPFNhv-BUMzEKE$" class=3D"">http://www.jeffpippen.com/</a></div></div></di=
v></div>
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On=
Mar 29, 2021, at 8:00 AM, Matt Spangler (via carolinaleps Mailing List) &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:<carolinaleps...>" class=3D""><carolinaleps...>=
</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"=
"><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: Hel=
vetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; fon=
t-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;=
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;=
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style=3D"margin: =
0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">I=E2=80=
=99m relatively new to the listserv and trying to get a feel for whether to=
report every single sighting, or only rare sightings, or only impressive d=
ouble-digit checklists, etc. I haven=E2=80=99t seen too many leps so far th=
is year, so I figured I=E2=80=99d wait to send an email until I saw some =
=E2=80=9Cgood=E2=80=9D ones.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</s=
pan><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;=
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p>=
</div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, san=
s-serif;" class=3D"">On 3/28, at the Sandhills Community College gardens (M=
oore Co) I saw the following:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"marg=
in: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">ETS=
3<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; f=
ont-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Cloudless Sulphur 2<o:p class=
=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Henry=E2=80=99s Elfin 3 (one ovipositing o=
n Am. Holly)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-siz=
e: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Azure sp. 2.<o:p cla=
ss=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" cl=
ass=3D""><b class=3D"">I have a question about the azures.<span class=3D"Ap=
ple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Two of them were flying high around o=
ne or two American Hollies, occasionally landing near the top (but only for=
an instant) (perhaps ovipositing, but I couldn=E2=80=99t tell), then depar=
ting to continue circling the area, always sticking close to the holly tree=
s. Do you think it=E2=80=99s safe to call the azures Holly Azures given the=
ir affinity for the hollies, or might they be spring-form Summers? I read o=
ver the reference material that Salman shared earlier this spring, and it s=
eems that either are possible. I got some poor quality pictures; I expect t=
hey will not be helpful, but here they are anyway:<span class=3D"Apple-conv=
erted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://ww=
w.e-butterfly.org/ebapp/en/checklists/view/107716__;!!OToaGQ!_57K8ila57uowa=
_0c9YBwgnYphmVoULCKYfob1Cgd8jt3pFxPb_pXJ5GibSPhUIj-bM$" style=3D"color: rgb=
(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">https://www.e-butterf=
ly.org/ebapp/en/checklists/view/107716</a>.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div=
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; fon=
t-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""=
>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:=
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Other sightings from March:<o:p class=3D"=
"></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=
=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=
=3D"">3/27, Orange Co, Occoneechee Mountain SNA<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>=
<div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-seri=
f;" class=3D"">ETS 1<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Azure sp. 1<=
span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">(Another az=
ure question=E2=80=94is it safe to call these spring-form Summer?</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Does anyone have more precise =
date ranges for when Spring Azures fly in the piedmont?)<o:p class=3D""></o=
:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">(no elfins)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=
=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=
=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-siz=
e: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">3/26 Chatham Co, Hom=
e<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; fo=
nt-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Falcate Orangetip 2<o:p class=
=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">ETS 1<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div styl=
e=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=
=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-siz=
e: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">3/22 Chatham Co, Jor=
dan Lake ESF<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-siz=
e: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">ETS 1<o:p class=3D""=
></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D=
"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"=
">3/18 Chatham Co, Home<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0i=
n; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Falcate O=
rangetip 1<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D"=
"></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=
=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=
=3D"">3/14 Chatham Co, Home<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin=
: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Quest=
ion Mark 1<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size:=
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Falcate Orangetip 1<o:=
p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-f=
amily: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Azure sp. 1<b class=3D""><span clas=
s=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>(same question as above, but from =
3/14)</b><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;<=
/o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif;" class=3D"">3/14 Chatham Co, Jordan Lake ESF<o:p class=3D""><=
/o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Azure sp. 4 (same)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><di=
v style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"=
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; fo=
nt-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">3/12 Pender Co=
, Holly Shelter GL<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; fo=
nt-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Cloudless Sulp=
hur 2<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p=
></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sa=
ns-serif;" class=3D"">3/9 Chatham Co, Home<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" c=
lass=3D"">Question Mark 1<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p cl=
ass=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font=
-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Best,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>=
<div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-seri=
f;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in;=
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Matt Spangl=
er<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; f=
ont-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Chatham Co, NC<o:p class=3D"">=
</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibr=
i, sans-serif;" class=3D""><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://s=
panglerwoodbirds.com__;!!OToaGQ!_57K8ila57uowa_0c9YBwgnYphmVoULCKYfob1Cgd8j=
t3pFxPb_pXJ5GibSP3P_MXZA$" style=3D"color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration=
: underline;" class=3D"">https://spanglerwoodbirds.com</a></div></div></div=
></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div></body></=
html>=

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