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List: Carolina-Leps
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2021 22:04:44 -0400
From: Michael Newton (via carolinaleps Mailing List) <carolinaleps...>
Subject: Re: Elevation info? Re: 9-3-21 Mt. Mitchell ... one Green Comma


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Hi Heather,

The =E2=80=9CQuestion Mark=E2=80=9D looks like a female Eastern Comma. It=E2=
=80=99s missing the dot dot dot dash on the dorsal.

The =E2=80=9CGreen Comma=E2=80=9D looks like a male Eastern Comma. The dark=
margin is too thin, and the hindwing spots aren=E2=80=99t right for Green. =
(The ventral is much easier to determine)

Both are the fall form.

=E2=80=94Michael

> On Sep 5, 2021, at 9:45 PM, Heather Rayburn (via carolinaleps Mailing List=
) <carolinaleps...> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BFThanks for the feedback, Harry. I wish I had better pics of that (=
hopefully) Green Comma. It only touched down for a minute. Re: duskywing =E2=
=80=A6 where do I find elevation information for butterfly sightings?
>=20
> Cheers,
> H.
>=20
>=20
>> On Sep 5, 2021, at 5:37 PM, Harry LeGrand (via carolinaleps Mailing List)=
<carolinaleps...> wrote:
>>=20
>> I THINK this is a Green Comma, but I cannot swear to it. (There are Easte=
rn Commas up there at this time of year as well.) Most I have seen are dee=
p scarlet toward the body and yellowish toward the FW tip -- not even orang=
e like yours.. The margin is quite ragged. I don't trust the black spot de=
al, so Gail may need to explain, or someone else. The underside is obvious,=
if you can see it. Normally -- when I see a Green Comma, I can ID it by ge=
stalt. When I can't, like this, I need more reasons why Eastern Comma is ru=
led out. The yellow spots/bars in the dark of the HW maybe?
>>=20
>> Your dark skipper is a duskywing, not a Sootywing, which should not be an=
ywhere in NC at an elevation near 6000 feet. I would guess a Wild Indigo, i=
f not a male Horace's, but from below, I don't want to call which.
>>=20
>> Harry LeGrand
>>=20
>> On Sun, Sep 5, 2021 at 7:40 PM Heather Rayburn <carolinaleps...> wr=
ote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>=20
>>> I spent four hours (12-4 pm) hiking around Mt. Mitchell this Friday, Sep=
t. 3, hoping to spot a Green Comma. It was gorgeous up there and I didn=E2=80=
=99t run into too many people. I=E2=80=99m still a rank amateur when it come=
s to this but have spent a good bit of time staring at my pics and books thi=
s weekend. I saw two anglewings, and the one I suspected was a Green Comma w=
as confirmed by Gail Lankford. Here=E2=80=99s what I found on Friday that I=
feel confident listing:
>>>=20
>>> Cabbage White- 2
>>>=20
>>> Orange or Clouded Sulphur - 1 (I=E2=80=99ve stared at the books/pic toda=
y, and I can=E2=80=99t tell the difference to save my life.)
>>>=20
>>> Question Mark - 1 (dorsal side here; ventral side here.) I got a snap of=
the identifying =E2=80=9Cquestion mark=E2=80=9D and also went by the lavend=
er border.
>>>=20
>>> Green Comma - 1 =E2=80=A6 OK, the book says for ID, =E2=80=9CThe innermo=
st black spot on the trailing FW dot row is doubled across the vein.=E2=80=9D=
Gail says, "Notice the deep orange and the double spot (nearest body) on t=
he forewing; that is the easiest tell. Seeing the green border on back of wi=
ngs is usually impossible.=E2=80=9D Sorry to sound dumb, but could someone c=
onfirm that the part I have circled on this cropped version of my original p=
hoto is correct?
>>>=20
>>> Eastern Tiger Swallowtail (yellow) - 5
>>> Eastern Tiger Swallowtail (female, black) - 2
>>>=20
>>> Spicebush Swallowtail - 1
>>>=20
>>> Gray Hairstreak - 2
>>>=20
>>> Common Sootywing on road =E2=80=94 2 (I am not 100% on this ID, but it d=
oes agree with my book plus I feel good about =E2=80=9Cduskywing" because th=
e BF would land with its wings flat =E2=80=A6 then quickly fold them up to k=
eep me from getting a good look.)
>>>=20
>>> Eastern Tail Blue =E2=80=94 1
>>>=20
>>> Pipevine ST =E2=80=94 2
>>>=20
>>> Zabulon Skipper =E2=80=94 7
>>>=20
>>> Also:
>>> Eastern Pondhawk-1
>>> Dark-eyed Junco =E2=80=94 lots
>>> White-striped Black Moth -2 (no pics)
>>> Small White Grass-Veneer moth =E2=80=94 4
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> ________________________
>>> In other news, my yard is hopping:
>>>=20
>>> Yesterday, in my urban Asheville yard, I found my first ever Question Ma=
rk caterpillar on a volunteer Hackberry. I saw an adult American Snout sitti=
ng on a leaf and a few days ago spotted my first Hackberry Emperor hanging o=
ut on my car window. I also finally have Pipevine Swallowtail caterpillars o=
n my Pipevine. Yippie! And first Monarchs of late summer on 8/21/21. First G=
ulf Frit spotted in my yard this afternoon, 9/5/21.
>>>=20
>>> Cheers,
>>> Heather Rayburn
>>> Asheville
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Heather,</div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">The =E2=80=9CQuestion Mark=E2=80=9D looks l=
ike a female Eastern Comma. &nbsp;It=E2=80=99s missing the dot dot dot dash o=
n the dorsal.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">The =E2=80=9C=
Green Comma=E2=80=9D looks like a male Eastern Comma. &nbsp;The dark margin i=
s too thin, and the hindwing spots aren=E2=80=99t right for Green. &nbsp;(Th=
e ventral is much easier to determine)</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">Both are the fall form.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr">=E2=80=94Michael</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite">On Sep 5, 2021, at 9:45 PM, Heather Rayburn (via carol=
inaleps Mailing List) &lt;<carolinaleps...>&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquo=
te></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<meta http-equi=
v=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">Thanks for the fee=
dback, Harry. I wish I had better pics of that (hopefully) Green Comma. It o=
nly touched down for a minute. Re: duskywing =E2=80=A6 where do I find eleva=
tion information for butterfly sightings?<div class=3D""><br class=3D"webkit=
-block-placeholder"></div><div class=3D"">Cheers,</div><div class=3D"">H.<br=
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"=
>
</div>
<div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On S=
ep 5, 2021, at 5:37 PM, Harry LeGrand (via carolinaleps Mailing List) &lt;<a=
href=3D"mailto:<carolinaleps...>" class=3D""><carolinaleps...></a>&=
gt; wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div=
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"">I THINK this is a Green Comma, but I=
cannot swear to it. (There are Eastern Commas up there at this time of year=
as well.) &nbsp; Most I have seen are deep scarlet toward the body and yell=
owish toward the FW tip&nbsp; -- not even orange like yours..&nbsp; The marg=
in is quite ragged.&nbsp; I don't trust the black spot deal, so Gail may nee=
d to explain, or someone else.&nbsp; The underside is obvious, if you can se=
e it.&nbsp; Normally -- when I see a Green Comma, I can ID it by gestalt.&nb=
sp; When I can't, like this, I need more reasons why Eastern Comma is ruled o=
ut.&nbsp; The yellow spots/bars in the dark of the HW maybe?</div><div class=
=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Your dark skipper is a duskywing,=
not a Sootywing, which should not be anywhere in NC at an elevation near 60=
00 feet.&nbsp; I would guess a Wild Indigo, if not a male Horace's, but from=
below, I don't want to call which.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></di=
v><div class=3D"">Harry LeGrand<br class=3D""></div></div><br class=3D""><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Sep 5,=
2021 at 7:40 PM Heather Rayburn &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<carolinaleps...>=
" class=3D""><carolinaleps...></a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""></div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p=
x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: brea=
k-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Hi All,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D=
""></div><div class=3D"">I spent four hours (12-4 pm) hiking around&nbsp;<b c=
lass=3D"">Mt. Mitchell </b>this Friday, Sept. 3,&nbsp;hoping to spot a Green=
Comma. It was gorgeous up there and I didn=E2=80=99t run into too many peop=
le. I=E2=80=99m still a rank amateur when it comes to this but have spent a g=
ood bit of time staring at my pics and books this weekend. I saw two anglewi=
ngs, and the one I suspected was a Green Comma was confirmed by Gail Lankfor=
d.&nbsp; Here=E2=80=99s what I found on Friday that I feel confident listing=
:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a href=3D"https=
://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/190206870@N03/514255063=
34/in/dateposted-public/__;!!OToaGQ!81MnmARHbbXzCjKhGByzCm6mMxu5g7q6shV7DGN4=
3dMSN2Ib5GLURJ3hjnPhACv5-qg$" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">Cabbage White</a>=
- 2</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a href=3D"htt=
ps://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/190206870@N03/5142544=
8509/in/dateposted-public/__;!!OToaGQ!81MnmARHbbXzCjKhGByzCm6mMxu5g7q6shV7DG=
N43dMSN2Ib5GLURJ3hjnPhNtsTxeo$" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">Orange or Cloud=
ed Sulphur</a>&nbsp;- 1 (I=E2=80=99ve stared at the books/pic today, and I c=
an=E2=80=99t tell the difference to save my life.)</div><div class=3D""><br c=
lass=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Question Mark - 1 (<a href=3D"https://urldef=
ense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/190206870@N03/51428518375/in/dat=
eposted-public/__;!!OToaGQ!81MnmARHbbXzCjKhGByzCm6mMxu5g7q6shV7DGN43dMSN2Ib5=
GLURJ3hjnPhBny6QDg$" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">dorsal side here</a>;&nbsp=
;<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/190206=
870@N03/51428296959/in/dateposted-public/__;!!OToaGQ!81MnmARHbbXzCjKhGByzCm6=
mMxu5g7q6shV7DGN43dMSN2Ib5GLURJ3hjnPh41rWF-A$" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">=
ventral side here</a>.) I got a snap of the identifying =E2=80=9Cquestion ma=
rk=E2=80=9D and also went by the lavender border.</div><div class=3D""><br c=
lass=3D""></div><div class=3D""><b class=3D"">Green Comma</b>&nbsp;- 1 =E2=80=
=A6 OK, the book says for ID, =E2=80=9CThe innermost black spot on the trail=
ing FW dot row is doubled across the vein.=E2=80=9D Gail says, "Notice the d=
eep orange and the double &nbsp;spot (nearest body) on the forewing; that is=
the easiest tell. Seeing the green border on back of wings is usually impos=
sible.=E2=80=9D Sorry to sound dumb, but could someone confirm that the part=
I have circled on<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.=
com/photos/190206870@N03/51428022928/in/dateposted-public/__;!!OToaGQ!81MnmA=
RHbbXzCjKhGByzCm6mMxu5g7q6shV7DGN43dMSN2Ib5GLURJ3hjnPhhiPchwc$" target=3D"_b=
lank" class=3D""> this cropped version</a>&nbsp;of my&nbsp;<a href=3D"https:=
//urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/190206870@N03/5142800988=
8/in/dateposted-public/__;!!OToaGQ!81MnmARHbbXzCjKhGByzCm6mMxu5g7q6shV7DGN43=
dMSN2Ib5GLURJ3hjnPhGB81JlM$" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">original photo</a>=
&nbsp;is correct?</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">=
Eastern Tiger Swallowtail (yellow) - 5</div><div class=3D"">Eastern Tiger Sw=
allowtail (female, black) - 2</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div=
class=3D"">Spicebush Swallowtail - 1</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></=
div><div class=3D""><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flick=
r.com/photos/190206870@N03/51428870640/in/dateposted-public/__;!!OToaGQ!81Mn=
mARHbbXzCjKhGByzCm6mMxu5g7q6shV7DGN43dMSN2Ib5GLURJ3hjnPhzBuh7ow$" target=3D"=
_blank" class=3D"">Gray Hairstreak</a>&nbsp;- 2</div><div class=3D""><br cla=
ss=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/=
/www.flickr.com/photos/190206870@N03/51428170728/in/dateposted-public/__;!!O=
ToaGQ!81MnmARHbbXzCjKhGByzCm6mMxu5g7q6shV7DGN43dMSN2Ib5GLURJ3hjnPhSXIO9tE$" t=
arget=3D"_blank" class=3D"">Common Sootywing</a>&nbsp;on road =E2=80=94 2 (I=
am not 100% on this ID, but it does agree with my book plus I feel good abo=
ut =E2=80=9Cduskywing" because the BF would land with its wings flat =E2=80=A6=
then quickly fold them up to keep me from getting a good look.)</div><div c=
lass=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Eastern Tail Blue =E2=80=94 1=
</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a href=3D"https:=
//urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/190206870@N03/5142823749=
3/in/dateposted-public/__;!!OToaGQ!81MnmARHbbXzCjKhGByzCm6mMxu5g7q6shV7DGN43=
dMSN2Ib5GLURJ3hjnPhldOZOcg$" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">Pipevine ST</a>&nb=
sp;=E2=80=94 2</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a h=
ref=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/190206870@N=
03/51427230752/in/dateposted-public/__;!!OToaGQ!81MnmARHbbXzCjKhGByzCm6mMxu5=
g7q6shV7DGN43dMSN2Ib5GLURJ3hjnPhd4eccoQ$" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">Zabul=
on Skipper</a>&nbsp;=E2=80=94 7</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><d=
iv class=3D"">Also:</div><div class=3D""><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v=
3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/190206870@N03/51425601569/in/dateposted-pu=
blic/__;!!OToaGQ!81MnmARHbbXzCjKhGByzCm6mMxu5g7q6shV7DGN43dMSN2Ib5GLURJ3hjnP=
haDxkYNs$" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">Eastern Pondhawk</a>-1</div><div cla=
ss=3D""><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos=
/190206870@N03/51423985797/in/dateposted-public/__;!!OToaGQ!81MnmARHbbXzCjKh=
GByzCm6mMxu5g7q6shV7DGN43dMSN2Ib5GLURJ3hjnPheenTt8M$" target=3D"_blank" clas=
s=3D"">Dark-eyed Junco</a>&nbsp;=E2=80=94 lots</div><div class=3D"">White-st=
riped Black Moth -2 (no pics)</div><div class=3D""><a href=3D"https://urldef=
ense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/190206870@N03/51428558804/in/dat=
eposted-public/__;!!OToaGQ!81MnmARHbbXzCjKhGByzCm6mMxu5g7q6shV7DGN43dMSN2Ib5=
GLURJ3hjnPhFALCEEA$" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">Small White Grass-Veneer</=
a>&nbsp;moth =E2=80=94 4</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div clas=
s=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">________________________</div><d=
iv class=3D"">In other news, my yard is hopping:</div><div class=3D""><br cl=
ass=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Yesterday, in my urban Asheville yard, I foun=
d my first ever&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flic=
kr.com/photos/190206870@N03/51423801397/in/dateposted-public/__;!!OToaGQ!81M=
nmARHbbXzCjKhGByzCm6mMxu5g7q6shV7DGN43dMSN2Ib5GLURJ3hjnPhgoLJhV8$" target=3D=
"_blank" class=3D"">Question Mark&nbsp;</a>caterpillar on a volunteer Hackbe=
rry. I saw an adult American Snout sitting on a leaf and a few days ago spot=
ted my first&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.=
com/photos/190206870@N03/51425053463/in/dateposted-public/__;!!OToaGQ!81MnmA=
RHbbXzCjKhGByzCm6mMxu5g7q6shV7DGN43dMSN2Ib5GLURJ3hjnPhXZFR2YU$" target=3D"_b=
lank" class=3D"">Hackberry Emperor</a>&nbsp;hanging out on my car window. I a=
lso finally have&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.fli=
ckr.com/photos/190206870@N03/51425796990/in/dateposted-public/__;!!OToaGQ!81=
MnmARHbbXzCjKhGByzCm6mMxu5g7q6shV7DGN43dMSN2Ib5GLURJ3hjnPh6kX29EM$" target=3D=
"_blank" class=3D"">Pipevine Swallowtail caterpillars</a>&nbsp;on my Pipevin=
e. Yippie! And&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flick=
r.com/photos/190206870@N03/51425803250/in/dateposted-public/__;!!OToaGQ!81Mn=
mARHbbXzCjKhGByzCm6mMxu5g7q6shV7DGN43dMSN2Ib5GLURJ3hjnPhRyaQgu8$" target=3D"=
_blank" class=3D"">first Monarchs</a>&nbsp;of late summer on 8/21/21.&nbsp;<=
a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/19020687=
0@N03/51428269574/in/dateposted-public/__;!!OToaGQ!81MnmARHbbXzCjKhGByzCm6mM=
xu5g7q6shV7DGN43dMSN2Ib5GLURJ3hjnPhcGJYDAE$" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">Fi=
rst Gulf Frit</a>&nbsp;spotted in my yard this afternoon, 9/5/21.</div><div c=
lass=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Cheers,<br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-i=
ndent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; te=
xt-decoration: none;" class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"text-align:start=
;text-indent:0px" class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"text-align:start;tex=
t-indent:0px" class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"text-align:start;text-in=
dent:0px" class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"text-align:start;text-indent=
:0px" class=3D""><div style=3D"letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none;=
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">=
<b class=3D"">Heather Rayburn</b></div><div class=3D"">Asheville</div><div s=
tyle=3D"letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; w=
ord-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></=
div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""></div><br class=
=3D""></div><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<br class=3D""></div></blockquote></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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