Jump to :     |    View All Lists    |    FAQ
List: NorWest Leps
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2022 23:41:47 -0700
From: <tlpyle...>
Subject: Re: [NorWestLeps] Puget Blues at West Rocky Prairie

--=_3010b810d1d9c82b3d7b952a4c62dc75
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Don't count on it, Kelly. Caitlin and I were rudely surprised by one
such distinction we thought we'd made for the Field Guide! Yes, the
margins are helpful, and yes, the color on average differs such that you
can often distinguish them on the wing, when fresh. BUT...wear, sun,
sex, variation, etc. make the dorsal distinction sometimes unreliable.=20

The best rule is, just don't count on dorsals for blues. Go for the
undersides. If you see ANY maculation distal from the mesial band of
spots, it is _Icaricia_. Silveries have only the one band of spots,
ever, and as Caitlin says, it tends to be sharper, with the black iris
usually large than the white ring.=20

A major study of these species found that when both of them are present
and there are two or more lupines, they tend to concentrate on different
ones. If only one species of lupine is present, they will share, but
it's not their preference. I can find the reference for that if you
wish.=20

Bob P.

On 2022-06-21 11:30 pm, mcallisters4 wrote:

> Thanks Caitlin. The butterfly in the first picture struck me as a vibrant=
shiny blue and I thought it was likely a Silvery Blue. It was also some di=
stance away from the larger patches of sickle-keeled lupine (not sure that =
means anything since Silvery Blues are probably using it as much as the Pug=
et Blues). So, it was only after I had the pictures on my computer that I c=
ould see enough of the ventral hind wing to know it was a Puget Blue. I gue=
ss I'm feeling uncomfortable about the highly variable hues of blue, in mal=
es, being very useful to differentiate these two species. Maybe I'll feel d=
ifferently after more experience.=20
>=20
> Kelly=20
>=20
> From: <NorWestLeps...> <NorWestLeps...> On Behalf Of Caitlin =
LaBar
> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 11:22 PM
> To: <NorWestLeps...>
> Subject: Re: [NorWestLeps] Puget Blues at West Rocky Prairie=20
>=20
> Yes those are all icarioides blackmorei. Male Silvery Blues don't have mu=
ch of a brown edge between the blue and the wing fringe, while icarioides a=
lmost always have a noticeable brown margin, and blackmorei in particular c=
an have a very wide margin, I've seen up to a third of the wing, making the=
m look almost like a female.
>=20
> As to color tint, icarioides is usually a dusty lavender while lygdamus h=
as a bright glint (i.e. silvery), but photo angle can affect that, such as =
your first Flickr photo that looks super bright. It has a wide brown margin=
though and you can see enough of the ventral to make out the fuzziness of =
icarioides rather than more sharp spots on lygdamus.=20
>=20
> Puget blues are definitely known from all over Rocky Prairie but I don't =
know what the most recent records are.=20
>=20
> Caitlin =20
>=20
> --=20
>=20
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~=20
>=20
> Personal: <caitlinlabar...>=20
>=20
> Business: <northwestbutterflies...>=20
>=20
> Info: northwestbutterflies.blogspot.com [1]=20
>=20
> Sales: northwestbutterflies.com [2]=20
>=20
>=20
=20

Links:
------
[1] http://northwestbutterflies.blogspot.com/
[2] http://northwestbutterflies.com
[3] https://groups.io/g/NorWestLeps/message/10981
[4] https://groups.io/mt/91916505/4540190
[5] https://groups.io/g/NorWestLeps/post
[6] https://groups.io/g/NorWestLeps/editsub/4540190
[7]
https://groups.io/g/NorWestLeps/leave/8161845/4540190/1528877983/xyzzy


-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#10982): https://groups.io/g/NorWestLeps/message/10982
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/91916505/795800
Group Owner: NorWestLeps+<owner...>
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/NorWestLeps/leave/4559582/795800/778100922=
/xyzzy [<lists...>]
-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-



--=_3010b810d1d9c82b3d7b952a4c62dc75
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=
=3DUTF-8" /></head><body style=3D'font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,Gen=
eva,sans-serif'>
<p>Don't count on it, Kelly. Caitlin and I were rudely surprised by one suc=
h distinction we thought we'd made for the Field Guide! Yes, the margins ar=
e helpful, and yes, the color on average differs such that you can often di=
stinguish them on the wing, when fresh. BUT...wear, sun, sex, variation, et=
c. make the dorsal distinction sometimes unreliable.</p>
<p>The best rule is, just don't count on dorsals for blues. Go for the unde=
rsides. If you see ANY maculation distal from the mesial band of spots, it =
is <em>Icaricia</em>. Silveries have only the one band of spots, ever, and =
as Caitlin says, it tends to be sharper, with the black iris usually large =
than the white ring.</p>
<p>A major study of these species found that when both of them are present =
and there are two or more lupines, they tend to concentrate on different on=
es. If only one species of lupine is present, they will share, but it's not=
their preference. I can find the reference for that if you wish.</p>
<p>Bob P.</p>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<p><br /></p>
<p>On 2022-06-21 11:30 pm, mcallisters4 wrote:</p>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2=
px solid; margin: 0"><!-- html ignored --><!-- head ignored --><!-- meta ig=
nored --><!-- meta ignored -->
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks Caitlin. The butterfly in the first picture s=
truck me as a vibrant shiny blue and I thought it was likely a Silvery Blue=
. It was also some distance away from the larger patches of sickle-keeled l=
upine (not sure that means anything since Silvery Blues are probably using =
it as much as the Puget Blues). So, it was only after I had the pictures on=
my computer that I could see enough of the ventral hind wing to know it wa=
s a Puget Blue. I guess I'm feeling uncomfortable about the highly variable=
hues of blue, in males, being very useful to differentiate these two speci=
es. Maybe I'll feel differently after more experience.<!-- o ignored --></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><!-- o ignored -->&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kelly<!-- o ignored --></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><!-- o ignored -->&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"border: none; border-top: solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding: 3.0pt=
0in 0in 0in;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><strong>From:</strong> <NorWestLeps...> &lt;Nor=
<WestLeps...>&gt; <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Caitlin LaBar<br /><st=
rong>Sent:</strong> Tuesday, June 21, 2022 11:22 PM<br /><strong>To:</stron=
g> <NorWestLeps...><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [NorWestLeps] P=
uget Blues at West Rocky Prairie<!-- o ignored --></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><!-- o ignored -->&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes those are all icarioides blackmorei. Male Silver=
y Blues don't have much of a brown edge between the blue and the wing fring=
e, while icarioides almost always have a noticeable brown margin, and black=
morei in particular can have a very wide margin, I've seen up to a third of=
the wing, making them look almost like a female.<!-- o ignored --></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As to color tint, icarioides is usually a dusty lave=
nder while lygdamus has a bright glint (i.e. silvery), but photo angle can =
affect that, such as your first Flickr photo that looks super bright. It ha=
s a wide brown margin though and you can see enough of the ventral to make =
out the fuzziness of icarioides rather than more sharp spots on lygdamus.<!=
-- o ignored --></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><!-- o ignored -->&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Puget blues are definitely known from all over Rocky=
Prairie but I don't know what the most recent records are.<!-- o ignored -=
-></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><!-- o ignored -->&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Caitlin&nbsp;<!-- o ignored --></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-- <!-- o ignored --></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><!-- o ignored -->&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Aria=
l',sans-serif; color: black;">~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: blac=
k;"><!-- o ignored --></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helv=
etica',sans-serif; color: black;">Personal:&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:caitlinl=
<abar...>"><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Arial',sans=
-serif; color: #1155cc;"><caitlinlabar...></span></a><!-- o ignored --=
></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helv=
etica',sans-serif; color: black;">Business: <a href=3D"mailto:northwestbutt=
<erflies...>"><northwestbutterflies...></a><!-- o ignored --></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helv=
etica',sans-serif; color: black;">Info:&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://northwestbut=
terflies.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer"><span=
style=3D"font-family: 'Arial',sans-serif; color: #3a65bb;">northwestbutter=
flies.blogspot.com</span></a></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-=
family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: black;"><!-- o ignored --></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helv=
etica',sans-serif; color: black;">Sales: <a href=3D"http://northwestbutterf=
lies.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">northwestbutterflie=
s.com</a><!-- o ignored --></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<!-- html ignored -->

</blockquote>
</body></html>


<div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> <hr> G=
roups.io Links:<p> You receive all messages sent to this group. <p> <a=
target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/g/NorWestLeps/message/10982">V=
iew/Reply Online (#10982)</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:NorWes=
<tLeps...>?subject=3DRe:%20Re%3A%20%5BNorWestLeps%5D%20Puget%20Blues%2=
0at%20West%20Rocky%20Prairie">Reply To Group</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" hr=
ef=3D"mailto:<tlpyle...>?subject=3DPrivate:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5BNo=
rWestLeps%5D%20Puget%20Blues%20at%20West%20Rocky%20Prairie">Reply To Sender=
</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/mt/91916505/795800=
">Mute This Topic</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/NorWestLeps/post">N=
ew Topic</a><br> <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/NorWestLeps/editsub/7958=
00">Your Subscription</a> | <a href=3D"mailto:NorWestLeps+<owner...>">=
Contact Group Owner</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/NorWestLeps/leave=
/4559582/795800/778100922/xyzzy">Unsubscribe</a> [<lists...>=
m]<br> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div>=20


--=_3010b810d1d9c82b3d7b952a4c62dc75--