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List: NorWest Leps
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 07:03:50 -0600
From: Norbert Kondla <nkondla...>
Subject: Re: [NorWestLeps] Help identifying a blue from June 2019, Olympia Airport

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I vote for Celastrina. In addition to what Bob pointed out, note also the
dark terminal line on the ventral hind wing. The icarioides subspecies
blackmorei and montis do have very lightly marked ventral hindwings but
lack the dark terminal line. Both of these were described from nearby
southwestern British Columbia. You can see pics of the name bearing types
here
https://flic.kr/p/T7WUwr
and here
https://flic.kr/p/2cDbv28

On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 1:39 AM <tlpyle...> wrote:

> Well, Kelly, this one is a challenge! But I think you were right in the
> first place, that it is an Echo Azure.
>
> My dictum about "any spots distal of the mesial band" being *Icaricia*
> only applies to individuals that might be taken for *Glaucopsyche*, which
> this one would not. Actually, ALL the blues (I think) have maculation
> distal of the mesial band EXCEPT for silveries; so perhaps I should have
> framed that in the opposite terms. I can see why Stewart would think this a
> Boisduval's, given the state of the mesial band of spots; but:
>
> the field mark that most says "*Celastrina*" to me about this one is the
> long vertical dash in the cell, a classic azure marking. Also, the
> submarginal spots almost suggest chevrons, which azures generally display.
> I suspect your Johnson's Prairie puddlers were also azures.
>
> Pelham? Norbert? Thoughts?
>
> As always, specimens solve the issue!
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> On 2022-06-22 10:27 pm, mcallisters4 wrote:
>
> I was using inaturalist to explore locations where Silvery Blues and
> Boisduval's Blues had been reported in prairies of south Puget Sound. I
> looked at the photo linked below and saw that it had initially been
> identified as a Boisduval's Blue (ssp.blackmorei). I didn't think it was a
> Boisduval's Blue and thought it was an Echo Azure. Stewart Wechsler pointed
> out reasons why he didn't believe it to be an Echo Azure and I think
> Stewart is right. Noting Bob Pyles' words from yesterday, "If you see ANY
> maculation distal from the mesial band of spots, it is *Icaricia*." I
> believe Stewart Wechsler was probably right in his initial identification
> of this butterfly as Icaricia. I'd appreciate feedback on this one. I
> remember seeing many blues that looked like this one, puddling near
> Johnson's Prairie on Joint Base Lewis-McChord, many years ago. The ventral
> hind wing spots have poorly defined (not very white) halos and the dark
> centers are quite large relative to the light halos. I was totally confused
> by the ones near Johnson's Prairie. It will be nice, for me, to settle this
> so I'll know what I'm looking at next time.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/29002564@N08/52166801318/in/dateposted-public/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
Norbert Kondla
Calgary, Alberta, Canada (elevation 1060 metres asl)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/118126948@N03/


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<div dir=3D"ltr">I vote for Celastrina. In addition to what Bob pointed out=
, note also the dark terminal line on the ventral hind wing. The icarioides=
subspecies blackmorei and montis do have very lightly marked ventral hindw=
ings but lack the dark terminal line. Both of these were described from nea=
rby southwestern British Columbia. You can see pics of the name bearing typ=
es here<div><a href=3D"https://flic.kr/p/T7WUwr">https://flic.kr/p/T7WUwr</=
a><br></div><div>and here</div><div><a href=3D"https://flic.kr/p/2cDbv28">h=
ttps://flic.kr/p/2cDbv28</a><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 1:39 AM &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:<tlpyle...>"><tlpyle...></a>&gt; wrote=
:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"=
font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif">
<p>Well, Kelly, this one is a challenge! But I think you were right in the =
first place, that it is an Echo Azure.</p>
<p>My dictum about &quot;any spots distal of the mesial band&quot; being <e=
m>Icaricia</em> only applies to individuals that might be taken for <em>Gla=
ucopsyche</em>, which this one would not. Actually, ALL the blues (I think)=
have maculation distal of the mesial band EXCEPT for silveries; so perhaps=
I should have framed that in the opposite terms. I can see why Stewart wou=
ld think this a Boisduval&#39;s, given the state of the mesial band of spot=
s; but:</p>
<p>the field mark that most says &quot;<em>Celastrina</em>&quot; to me abou=
t this one is the long vertical dash in the cell, a classic azure marking. =
Also, the submarginal spots almost suggest chevrons, which azures generally=
display. I suspect your Johnson&#39;s Prairie puddlers were also azures.</=
p>
<p>Pelham? Norbert? Thoughts?</p>
<p>As always, specimens solve the issue!</p>
<p>Bob</p>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<p><br></p>
<p>On 2022-06-22 10:27 pm, mcallisters4 wrote:</p>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"padding:0px 0.4em;border-left:2px solid =
rgb(16,16,255);margin:0px">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">I was using inaturali=
st to explore locations where Silvery Blues and Boisduval&#39;s Blues had b=
een reported in prairies of south Puget Sound. I looked at the photo linked=
below and saw that it had initially been identified as a Boisduval&#39;s B=
lue (ssp.blackmorei). I didn&#39;t think it was a Boisduval&#39;s Blue and =
thought it was an Echo Azure. Stewart Wechsler pointed out reasons why he d=
idn&#39;t believe it to be an Echo Azure and I think Stewart is right. Noti=
ng Bob Pyles&#39; words from yesterday, &quot;If you see ANY maculation dis=
tal from the mesial band of spots, it is <em><span style=3D"font-family:Cal=
ibri,sans-serif">Icaricia</span></em>.&quot; I believe Stewart Wechsler was=
probably right in his initial identification of this butterfly as Icaricia=
. I&#39;d appreciate feedback on this one. I remember seeing many blues tha=
t looked like this one, puddling near Johnson&#39;s Prairie on Joint Base L=
ewis-McChord, many years ago. The ventral hind wing spots have poorly defin=
ed (not very white) halos and the dark centers are quite large relative to =
the light halos. I was totally confused by the ones near Johnson&#39;s Prai=
rie. It will be nice, for me, to settle this so I&#39;ll know what I&#39;m =
looking at next time. </span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><a href=3D"https://ww=
w.flickr.com/photos/29002564@N08/52166801318/in/dateposted-public/" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.flickr.com/photos/29002564@N08/52166801318/in/datep=
osted-public/</a></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:white">=C2=A0</span></p>
</div>
</div>


</blockquote>
</div>


=20

<p></p><p></p></blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Norbert Kondla<di=
v>Calgary, Alberta, Canada=C2=A0 (elevation 1060 metres asl)</div><div><a h=
ref=3D"https://www.flickr.com/photos/118126948@N03/" target=3D"_blank">http=
s://www.flickr.com/photos/118126948@N03/</a><br></div><div><br></div></div>=
</div>


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