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| List: NorWest Leps Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 19:46:36 -0700 From: Norbert Kondla <nkondla...> Subject: Re: [NorWestLeps] [TILS] Cloak habitats |
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--000000000000cc3cf105f17b4f40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Yup, I too am skeptical of migrating rapae and 'philodice' (here in the west it is eriphyle). I have seen at least one population explosion of rapae and a few years ago I saw my first and so far only mass movement of eriphyle but nothing that shows migration. I even recall some literature suggesting Pyrgus communis migrates but again have not seen any evidence of that either. On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 7:36 PM Harry Pavulaan <harrypav...> wrote: > Cris: > > That Shannon paper is very interesting. I grew up on Long Island and > spent many later years visiting family back there. Shannon's observations > were a few miles west of the beaches I spent many years enjoying. I can > corroborate his observations regarding D. plexippus and P. > interrogationis. Reportedly the Vanessas and J. coenia migrate but I've > never seen them migrating south. I do question things like P. rapae and C. > philodice migrating. Never seen this. They do explode in numbers along > the coast in September but are quite sedentary. The persistent shore wind > can blow them around but they are mostly hunkered down on windy days. The > odd one out is P. sennae. They head north at breakneck speed in September, > certainly to a frozen doom up north. > > Harry > > > On Jan 4, 2023 at 12:30 PM, Crispin Guppy <csguppy...> wrote: > > The flight behaviour of presumed southward migrating cloaks in eastern > Canada was described in Gibo 1981 (attached). Presumed migrating cloaks > on Long island, NY (and many other species) are described by Shannon 1917 > (attached). Very weak documentation, and there is apparently nothing else. > > > > Crispin Guppy > > Whitehorse, YT > > > > *From:* <TILS...> <TILS...> *On Behalf Of *Norbert Kondla > *Sent:* January 4, 2023 7:48 AM > *To:* <TILS...> > *Cc:* desertleps <desertleps...>; norwestleps < > <norwestleps...> > *Subject:* Re: [TILS] Cloak habitats > > > > Yes, I recall from past literature review that there is substantial > variation in the way that people apply the > > word 'migration'; thus making it unclear just what the story really is. I > don't recall seeing any evidence for our > > North American Cloaks engaging in migration as defined by long distance > annual unidirectional movements. > But in Europe there has been documentation of the real Cloaks having > irregular mass movements over distance; > > which I do not consider to be migration. > > > > On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 10:32 PM Harry Pavulaan <harrypav...> > wrote: > > Norbert: > > > > I have only ever found Cloaks in mature deciduous forest in the east, > though twice I found larvae on Salix nigra in open, shrubby habitats. > > > > There are many reports along the southern New England shoreline of > migratory movement of Cloaks toward the south and west when the Monarchs > are migrating. I have not seen this and it may be a localized movement. I > have, however, witnessed Polygonia interrogationis migrating along the > shoreline and P. comma migrating south overland. These also may be > localized movements, as both do hibernate here. > > > > Harry > > > > > > On Jan 3, 2023 at 8:46 AM, Norbert Kondla <nkondla...> wrote: > > Prior to August 2005 I had found Nymphalis antiopa hyperborea in a variety > of upland forest habitats and even in bits of riparian woodland/willow > shrubbery of the North American prairie region. In August 2005 Ken Philip > took Joe and I to the Bonanaza Creek bog near Fairbanks for some butterfly > fun and there I was able to add spruce bog to the list of habitats used by > Cloaks. Here are some pics; the sky was murky due to forest fire smoke > > https://flic.kr/p/2o9r2QY > > > > -- > > Norbert Kondla > > Calgary, Alberta, Canada (elevation 1060 metres asl) > > https://www.flickr.com/photos/118126948@N03/ > > > > > > > > > -- > > Norbert Kondla > > Calgary, Alberta, Canada (elevation 1060 metres asl) > > https://www.flickr.com/photos/118126948@N03/ > > > > > > > -- Norbert Kondla Calgary, Alberta, Canada (elevation 1060 metres asl) https://www.flickr.com/photos/118126948@N03/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#11170): https://groups.io/g/NorWestLeps/message/11170 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/96051221/795800 Group Owner: NorWestLeps+<owner...> Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/NorWestLeps/leave/4559582/795800/778100922/xyzzy [<lists...>] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- --000000000000cc3cf105f17b4f40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Yup, I too am skeptical of migrating rapae and 'philod= ice' (here in the west it is eriphyle). I have seen at least one popula= tion<div>explosion of rapae and a few years ago I saw my first and so far o= nly mass movement of eriphyle but nothing that shows migration.</div><div>I= even recall some literature suggesting Pyrgus communis migrates but again = have not seen any evidence of that either.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gma= il_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 7:36= PM Harry Pavulaan <<a href=3D"mailto:<harrypav...>">harrypav@hot= mail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D= "margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le= ft:1ex"><div id=3D"m_8252216734449749011edo-message"><div></div></div><div = id=3D"m_8252216734449749011edo-message"><div><div>Cris:</div><div><br></div= ><div>That Shannon paper is very interesting.=C2=A0 I grew up on Long Islan= d and spent many later years visiting family back there.=C2=A0 Shannon'= s observations were a few miles west of the beaches I spent many years enjo= ying.=C2=A0 I can corroborate his observations regarding D. plexippus and P= . interrogationis.=C2=A0 Reportedly the Vanessas and J. coenia migrate but = I've never seen them migrating south.=C2=A0 I do question things like P= . rapae and C. philodice migrating.=C2=A0 Never seen this.=C2=A0 They do ex= plode in numbers along the coast in September but are quite sedentary.=C2= =A0 The persistent shore wind can blow them around but they are mostly hunk= ered down on windy days.=C2=A0 The odd one out is P. sennae.=C2=A0 They hea= d north at breakneck speed in September, certainly to a frozen doom up nort= h.</div><div><br></div><div>Harry</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div i= d=3D"m_8252216734449749011edo-signature"><pre></pre></div></div></div><div = id=3D"m_8252216734449749011edo-original"><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" sty= le=3D"margin:1ex 0px 0px;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef= t:0.4ex"><div id=3D"m_8252216734449749011edo-meta">On Jan 4, 2023 at 12:30 = PM, Crispin Guppy <<a href=3D"mailto:<csguppy...>" target=3D"_blank= "><csguppy...></a>> wrote: <br><br></div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>The flight behaviour of presumed southwar= d migrating cloaks in eastern Canada was described in </span><span style=3D= "font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Gibo 1981 (attached). Presume= d migrating cloaks on Long island, NY (and many other species) are describe= d by Shannon 1917 (attached). Very weak documentation, and there is apparen= tly nothing else. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span sty= le=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></sp= an></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Ari= al,sans-serif">Crispin Guppy<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"= ><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Whitehorse, YT= <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><= /span></p><div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:no= ne;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"M= soNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> <a = href=3D"mailto:<TILS...>" target=3D"_blank"><TILS...></a> <<a = href=3D"mailto:<TILS...>" target=3D"_blank"><TILS...></a>> <b>= On Behalf Of </b>Norbert Kondla<br><b>Sent:</b> January 4, 2023 7:48 AM<br>= <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:<TILS...>" target=3D"_blank">TILS@groups.= io</a><br><b>Cc:</b> desertleps <<a href=3D"mailto:<desertleps...>"= target=3D"_blank"><desertleps...></a>>; norwestleps <<a href=3D= "mailto:<norwestleps...>" target=3D"_blank"><norwestleps...></a>&= gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TILS] Cloak habitats<u></u><u></u></span></p></= div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNorm= al">Yes, I recall from past literature review that there is substantial var= iation in the way that people apply the<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"M= soNormal">word 'migration'; thus making it unclear just what the st= ory really is. I don't recall seeing any evidence for our<u></u><u></u>= </p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">North American Cloaks engaging in mig= ration as defined by long distance annual unidirectional movements.<br>But = in Europe there has been documentation of the real Cloaks having irregular = mass movements over distance;=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D= "MsoNormal">which I do not consider to be migration.<u></u><u></u></p></div= ></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D= "MsoNormal">On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 10:32 PM Harry Pavulaan <<a href=3D"m= ailto:<harrypav...>" target=3D"_blank"><harrypav...></a>> = wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-r= ight:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding= :0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div id=3D"m_825221673= 4449749011m_5332076239531111117edo-message"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal= ">Norbert:<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0= <u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have only ever found Cloaks = in mature deciduous forest in the east, though twice I found larvae on Sali= x nigra in open, shrubby habitats.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"= MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">There = are many reports along the southern New England shoreline of migratory move= ment of Cloaks toward the south and west when the Monarchs are migrating.= =C2=A0 I have not seen this and it may be a localized movement.=C2=A0 I hav= e, however, witnessed Polygonia interrogationis migrating along the shoreli= ne and P. comma migrating south overland.=C2=A0 These also may be localized= movements, as both do hibernate here.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class= =3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ha= rry<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>= </p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div><= /div><div id=3D"m_8252216734449749011m_5332076239531111117edo-original"><di= v><blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none= ;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 2pt;margin-left= :0cm;margin-top:6pt;margin-right:0cm"><div id=3D"m_8252216734449749011m_533= 2076239531111117edo-meta"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12p= t">On Jan 3, 2023 at 8:46 AM, Norbert Kondla <<a href=3D"mailto:nkondla@= telus.net" target=3D"_blank"><nkondla...></a>> wrote: <u></u><u></u= ></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Prior to August 2005 I had found Nym= phalis antiopa hyperborea in a variety of upland forest habitats and even i= n bits of riparian woodland/willow shrubbery of the North American prairie = region. In August 2005 Ken Philip took Joe and I to the Bonanaza Creek bog = near Fairbanks for some butterfly fun and there I was able to add spruce bo= g to the list of habitats used by Cloaks. Here are some pics; the sky was m= urky due to forest fire smoke<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">= <a href=3D"https://flic.kr/p/2o9r2QY" target=3D"_blank">https://flic.kr/p/2= o9r2QY</a><br clear=3D"all"><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><= u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p><d= iv><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Norbert Kondla<u></u><u></u></p><div><p clas= s=3D"MsoNormal">Calgary, Alberta, Canada=C2=A0 (elevation 1060 metres asl)<= u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.f= lickr.com/photos/118126948@N03/" target=3D"_blank">https://www.flickr.com/p= hotos/118126948@N03/</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"= ><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNorma= l"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><p c= lass=3D"MsoNormal"><br clear=3D"all"><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"Mso= Normal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u><= /u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Norbert Kondla<u></u><u></u></p><di= v><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Calgary, Alberta, Canada=C2=A0 (elevation 1060 met= res asl)<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http= s://www.flickr.com/photos/118126948@N03/" target=3D"_blank">https://www.fli= ckr.com/photos/118126948@N03/</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"M= soNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor= mal"></p></div></div> <br></blockquote></div></div> <p></p><p></p></blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><d= iv dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Norbert Kondla<di= v>Calgary, Alberta, Canada=C2=A0 (elevation 1060 metres asl)</div><div><a h= ref=3D"https://www.flickr.com/photos/118126948@N03/" target=3D"_blank">http= s://www.flickr.com/photos/118126948@N03/</a><br></div><div><br></div></div>= </div> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> <hr> Groups.io Links:<p> =20 You receive all messages sent to this group. =20 =20 <p> <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/g/NorWestLeps/message/11170"= >View/Reply Online (#11170)</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:<NorWestLeps...>?subject=3DRe:%2= 0Re%3A%20%5BNorWestLeps%5D%20%5BTILS%5D%20Cloak%20habitats">Reply To Group<= /a> =20 | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:<nkondla...>?subject=3DPriva= te:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5BNorWestLeps%5D%20%5BTILS%5D%20Cloak%20habitats">Repl= y To Sender</a> =20 | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/mt/96051221/795800">Mute T= his Topic</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/NorWestLeps/post">New Topic</a><br> <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/NorWestLeps/editsub/795800">Your Subscriptio= n</a> | <a href=3D"mailto:NorWestLeps+<owner...>">Contact Group Owner</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/NorWestLeps/leave/4559582/795800/778100922/x= yzzy">Unsubscribe</a> [<lists...>]<br> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> --000000000000cc3cf105f17b4f40-- |
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