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List: NorWest Leps
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 19:46:36 -0700
From: Norbert Kondla <nkondla...>
Subject: Re: [NorWestLeps] [TILS] Cloak habitats

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Yup, I too am skeptical of migrating rapae and 'philodice' (here in the
west it is eriphyle). I have seen at least one population
explosion of rapae and a few years ago I saw my first and so far only mass
movement of eriphyle but nothing that shows migration.
I even recall some literature suggesting Pyrgus communis migrates but again
have not seen any evidence of that either.

On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 7:36 PM Harry Pavulaan <harrypav...> wrote:

> Cris:
>
> That Shannon paper is very interesting. I grew up on Long Island and
> spent many later years visiting family back there. Shannon's observations
> were a few miles west of the beaches I spent many years enjoying. I can
> corroborate his observations regarding D. plexippus and P.
> interrogationis. Reportedly the Vanessas and J. coenia migrate but I've
> never seen them migrating south. I do question things like P. rapae and C.
> philodice migrating. Never seen this. They do explode in numbers along
> the coast in September but are quite sedentary. The persistent shore wind
> can blow them around but they are mostly hunkered down on windy days. The
> odd one out is P. sennae. They head north at breakneck speed in September,
> certainly to a frozen doom up north.
>
> Harry
>
>
> On Jan 4, 2023 at 12:30 PM, Crispin Guppy <csguppy...> wrote:
>
> The flight behaviour of presumed southward migrating cloaks in eastern
> Canada was described in Gibo 1981 (attached). Presumed migrating cloaks
> on Long island, NY (and many other species) are described by Shannon 1917
> (attached). Very weak documentation, and there is apparently nothing else.
>
>
>
> Crispin Guppy
>
> Whitehorse, YT
>
>
>
> *From:* <TILS...> <TILS...> *On Behalf Of *Norbert Kondla
> *Sent:* January 4, 2023 7:48 AM
> *To:* <TILS...>
> *Cc:* desertleps <desertleps...>; norwestleps <
> <norwestleps...>
> *Subject:* Re: [TILS] Cloak habitats
>
>
>
> Yes, I recall from past literature review that there is substantial
> variation in the way that people apply the
>
> word 'migration'; thus making it unclear just what the story really is. I
> don't recall seeing any evidence for our
>
> North American Cloaks engaging in migration as defined by long distance
> annual unidirectional movements.
> But in Europe there has been documentation of the real Cloaks having
> irregular mass movements over distance;
>
> which I do not consider to be migration.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 10:32 PM Harry Pavulaan <harrypav...>
> wrote:
>
> Norbert:
>
>
>
> I have only ever found Cloaks in mature deciduous forest in the east,
> though twice I found larvae on Salix nigra in open, shrubby habitats.
>
>
>
> There are many reports along the southern New England shoreline of
> migratory movement of Cloaks toward the south and west when the Monarchs
> are migrating. I have not seen this and it may be a localized movement. I
> have, however, witnessed Polygonia interrogationis migrating along the
> shoreline and P. comma migrating south overland. These also may be
> localized movements, as both do hibernate here.
>
>
>
> Harry
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 3, 2023 at 8:46 AM, Norbert Kondla <nkondla...> wrote:
>
> Prior to August 2005 I had found Nymphalis antiopa hyperborea in a variety
> of upland forest habitats and even in bits of riparian woodland/willow
> shrubbery of the North American prairie region. In August 2005 Ken Philip
> took Joe and I to the Bonanaza Creek bog near Fairbanks for some butterfly
> fun and there I was able to add spruce bog to the list of habitats used by
> Cloaks. Here are some pics; the sky was murky due to forest fire smoke
>
> https://flic.kr/p/2o9r2QY
>
>
>
> --
>
> Norbert Kondla
>
> Calgary, Alberta, Canada (elevation 1060 metres asl)
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/118126948@N03/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Norbert Kondla
>
> Calgary, Alberta, Canada (elevation 1060 metres asl)
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/118126948@N03/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
Norbert Kondla
Calgary, Alberta, Canada (elevation 1060 metres asl)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/118126948@N03/


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<div dir=3D"ltr">Yup, I too am skeptical of migrating rapae and &#39;philod=
ice&#39; (here in the west it is eriphyle). I have seen at least one popula=
tion<div>explosion of rapae and a few years ago I saw my first and so far o=
nly mass movement of eriphyle but nothing that shows migration.</div><div>I=
even recall some literature suggesting Pyrgus communis migrates but again =
have not seen any evidence of that either.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 7:36=
PM Harry Pavulaan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<harrypav...>">harrypav@hot=
mail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex"><div id=3D"m_8252216734449749011edo-message"><div></div></div><div =
id=3D"m_8252216734449749011edo-message"><div><div>Cris:</div><div><br></div=
><div>That Shannon paper is very interesting.=C2=A0 I grew up on Long Islan=
d and spent many later years visiting family back there.=C2=A0 Shannon&#39;=
s observations were a few miles west of the beaches I spent many years enjo=
ying.=C2=A0 I can corroborate his observations regarding D. plexippus and P=
. interrogationis.=C2=A0 Reportedly the Vanessas and J. coenia migrate but =
I&#39;ve never seen them migrating south.=C2=A0 I do question things like P=
. rapae and C. philodice migrating.=C2=A0 Never seen this.=C2=A0 They do ex=
plode in numbers along the coast in September but are quite sedentary.=C2=
=A0 The persistent shore wind can blow them around but they are mostly hunk=
ered down on windy days.=C2=A0 The odd one out is P. sennae.=C2=A0 They hea=
d north at breakneck speed in September, certainly to a frozen doom up nort=
h.</div><div><br></div><div>Harry</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div i=
d=3D"m_8252216734449749011edo-signature"><pre></pre></div></div></div><div =
id=3D"m_8252216734449749011edo-original"><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" sty=
le=3D"margin:1ex 0px 0px;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:0.4ex"><div id=3D"m_8252216734449749011edo-meta">On Jan 4, 2023 at 12:30 =
PM, Crispin Guppy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<csguppy...>" target=3D"_blank=
"><csguppy...></a>&gt; wrote: <br><br></div>
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>The flight behaviour of presumed southwar=
d migrating cloaks in eastern Canada was described in </span><span style=3D=
"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Gibo 1981 (attached). Presume=
d migrating cloaks on Long island, NY (and many other species) are describe=
d by Shannon 1917 (attached). Very weak documentation, and there is apparen=
tly nothing else. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></sp=
an></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Ari=
al,sans-serif">Crispin Guppy<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Whitehorse, YT=
<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p><div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:no=
ne;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> <a =
href=3D"mailto:<TILS...>" target=3D"_blank"><TILS...></a> &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:<TILS...>" target=3D"_blank"><TILS...></a>&gt; <b>=
On Behalf Of </b>Norbert Kondla<br><b>Sent:</b> January 4, 2023 7:48 AM<br>=
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:<TILS...>" target=3D"_blank">TILS@groups.=
io</a><br><b>Cc:</b> desertleps &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<desertleps...>"=
target=3D"_blank"><desertleps...></a>&gt;; norwestleps &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:<norwestleps...>" target=3D"_blank"><norwestleps...></a>&=
gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TILS] Cloak habitats<u></u><u></u></span></p></=
div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al">Yes, I recall from past literature review that there is substantial var=
iation in the way that people apply the<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal">word &#39;migration&#39;; thus making it unclear just what the st=
ory really is. I don&#39;t recall seeing any evidence for our<u></u><u></u>=
</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">North American Cloaks engaging in mig=
ration as defined by long distance annual unidirectional movements.<br>But =
in Europe there has been documentation of the real Cloaks having irregular =
mass movements over distance;=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal">which I do not consider to be migration.<u></u><u></u></p></div=
></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal">On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 10:32 PM Harry Pavulaan &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:<harrypav...>" target=3D"_blank"><harrypav...></a>&gt; =
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-r=
ight:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div id=3D"m_825221673=
4449749011m_5332076239531111117edo-message"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
">Norbert:<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0=
<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have only ever found Cloaks =
in mature deciduous forest in the east, though twice I found larvae on Sali=
x nigra in open, shrubby habitats.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">There =
are many reports along the southern New England shoreline of migratory move=
ment of Cloaks toward the south and west when the Monarchs are migrating.=
=C2=A0 I have not seen this and it may be a localized movement.=C2=A0 I hav=
e, however, witnessed Polygonia interrogationis migrating along the shoreli=
ne and P. comma migrating south overland.=C2=A0 These also may be localized=
movements, as both do hibernate here.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ha=
rry<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div><=
/div><div id=3D"m_8252216734449749011m_5332076239531111117edo-original"><di=
v><blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none=
;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 2pt;margin-left=
:0cm;margin-top:6pt;margin-right:0cm"><div id=3D"m_8252216734449749011m_533=
2076239531111117edo-meta"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12p=
t">On Jan 3, 2023 at 8:46 AM, Norbert Kondla &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nkondla@=
telus.net" target=3D"_blank"><nkondla...></a>&gt; wrote: <u></u><u></u=
></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Prior to August 2005 I had found Nym=
phalis antiopa hyperborea in a variety of upland forest habitats and even i=
n bits of riparian woodland/willow shrubbery of the North American prairie =
region. In August 2005 Ken Philip took Joe and I to the Bonanaza Creek bog =
near Fairbanks for some butterfly fun and there I was able to add spruce bo=
g to the list of habitats used by Cloaks. Here are some pics; the sky was m=
urky due to forest fire smoke<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<a href=3D"https://flic.kr/p/2o9r2QY" target=3D"_blank">https://flic.kr/p/2=
o9r2QY</a><br clear=3D"all"><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p><d=
iv><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Norbert Kondla<u></u><u></u></p><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal">Calgary, Alberta, Canada=C2=A0 (elevation 1060 metres asl)<=
u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.f=
lickr.com/photos/118126948@N03/" target=3D"_blank">https://www.flickr.com/p=
hotos/118126948@N03/</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><br clear=3D"all"><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u><=
/u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Norbert Kondla<u></u><u></u></p><di=
v><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Calgary, Alberta, Canada=C2=A0 (elevation 1060 met=
res asl)<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http=
s://www.flickr.com/photos/118126948@N03/" target=3D"_blank">https://www.fli=
ckr.com/photos/118126948@N03/</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"></p></div></div>




<br></blockquote></div></div>




<p></p><p></p></blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Norbert Kondla<di=
v>Calgary, Alberta, Canada=C2=A0 (elevation 1060 metres asl)</div><div><a h=
ref=3D"https://www.flickr.com/photos/118126948@N03/" target=3D"_blank">http=
s://www.flickr.com/photos/118126948@N03/</a><br></div><div><br></div></div>=
</div>


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