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List: Carolina-Leps
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2024 17:11:13 -0400
From: Harry LeGrand (via carolinaleps Mailing List) <carolinaleps...>
Subject: Re: Helicata Satyr

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Folks,

I would like to point out to readers that this taxon/species -- "Helicta
Satyr" -- bounces back and forth between a valid species or a valid
subspecies of Georgia Satyr, depending on the authority. All websites
should follow the checklist of one authority/reference, and the *Butterflies
of North Carolina *website follows the one most often in use by
lepidopterists, especially as it is updated almost annually. Jonathan
Pelham has been compiling *A Catalogue of the Butterflies of the United
States and Canada* since at least 2011; the most recent version appears to
be this one, dated 23 February 2023:

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.butterfliesofamerica.com/US-Can-Cat=
.htm__;!!OToaGQ!sCrW8PCqt-VfjeMaoxDgtuOTsI5D4P8uQ-9dyIP8oP00EDkkHWrJp7IKL-z=
FRlUGyjtrfecbcVZDY9JVPmjMcA$=20

Pelham -- A Research Associate with the McGuire Center at the University of
Florida -- had "Helicta Satyr" as a full species in a former version
-- *Neonympha
helicta*, but in the past version or two has placed "Helicta" as a
subspecies of Georgia Satyr, under the name of
*Neonympha areolatus septentrionalis. *

When Jeff and I were writing the upcoming *Butterflies of North Carolina,
South Carolina, Virginia, and Georgia: A Guide* book, I did have Helicta as
a full species, with a map and species account, and photos. However, after
Pelham came out with his latest version, we removed Helicta from the book,
and the text for it was included within the Georgia account, and the map is
a combined one for the two. Also, as the *Butterflies of North Carolina*
website follows Pelham, in the last year I did remove Helicta Satyr and
included its text within the Georgia Satyr account. We cannot change the
book at this point. It will be available through UNC Press in early
summer, with only Georgia Satyr and not Helicta Satyr. We can change the
website, but only if and when Pelham makes a revision with Helicta as a
full species.

Again, the website needs to follow a single authoritative checklist, and we
follow Pelham's scientific names/taxonomy. I am not a taxonomist and have
"no iron in the fire" here, and I have seen both forms on a number of
occasions.

Harry LeGrand
author, Butterflies of North Carolina website



On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 4:32=E2=80=AFPM Jeff Pippen <carolinaleps...>=
wrote:

> Hi Harry & All,
>
> Harry, thank you for the post!
>
> All, Helicta Satyr is a tough insect to find in NC, and as Harry said,
> it=E2=80=99s a great one to be on the lookout for and to get photos for
> verification if possible.
>
> Here=E2=80=99s a webpage with photos and extra information to help identi=
fy both
> Georgia and Helicta Satyrs
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.jeffpippen.com/butterflies/georgi=
asatyr.htm__;!!OToaGQ!sCrW8PCqt-VfjeMaoxDgtuOTsI5D4P8uQ-9dyIP8oP00EDkkHWrJp=
7IKL-zFRlUGyjtrfecbcVZDY9JEPQJmYQ$=20
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.jeffpippen.com/butterflies/georg=
iasatyr.htm__;!!OToaGQ!tQ6ypyS6-kSVs0VA6Tum7FITRhuaV_vSUDckw9iHhAcBYyAGgOke=
LCIm4pIW4amlgg1Djad-0V999Dj1gXHWGco$>
>
> There have been VERY few reports in the last 15+ years. The most recent
> reports are from counties along or near the =E2=80=9CFall Line=E2=80=9D (=
between the
> Piedmont and Coastal Plain provinces).
>
> Cheers,
> Jeff
> --
> Jeffrey S. Pippen
> Mebane, NC
> Director, Carolinas Butterfly Monitoring Program
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.jeffpippen.com/butterflies/carol=
inasbmp/carbmp-protocols.htm__;!!OToaGQ!tQ6ypyS6-kSVs0VA6Tum7FITRhuaV_vSUDc=
kw9iHhAcBYyAGgOkeLCIm4pIW4amlgg1Djad-0V999Dj1EN4FMew$>
> | N. Am. Butterfly Monitoring Network
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.thebutterflynetwork.org/__;!!OTo=
aGQ!tQ6ypyS6-kSVs0VA6Tum7FITRhuaV_vSUDckw9iHhAcBYyAGgOkeLCIm4pIW4amlgg1Djad=
-0V999Dj14BC93bc$>
> | Jeff=E2=80=99s Nature Pages
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.jeffpippen.com/__;!!OToaGQ!tQ6yp=
yS6-kSVs0VA6Tum7FITRhuaV_vSUDckw9iHhAcBYyAGgOkeLCIm4pIW4amlgg1Djad-0V999Dj1=
IgnhigU$>
>
>
> On Mar 19, 2024, at 2:54=E2=80=AFPM, <hpazures...> (via carolinaleps M=
ailing
> List) <carolinaleps...> wrote:
>
> All:
>
> Removal of the Helicta Satyr as a species by Pelham (via Butterflies of
> America) was premature. This was based on a paper by John Calhoun, which
> questioned whether the original illustration of Helicta Satyr represented=
a
> species or just a variant illustration of Georgia Satyr. Ron Gatrelle
> "elevated" Neonympha helicta to species rank in his 1998 paper as TTR
> 1(8). Pelham followed Calhoun, though Calhoun simply said more work was
> needed.
>
> In conversations with Nick Grishin, his lab recently performed extensive
> genomic analysis of the Neonympha Satyrs throughout the eastern U.S. They
> found that Neonympha broke down into three distinct clades: mitchel li,
> areaolatus, and helicta. Three species.
>
> My point here is that, even the "experts" make premature conclusions.
> Mistakes that reverberate thought subsequent literature and the bigger
> websites. My suggestion is that folks continue to report/photograph what
> appears to be Helicta Satyr. Simply put, it is intermediate between
> Georgia Satyr and Mitchell's Satyr. Mitchell's has round spots; Georgia
> has elongated "banana" spots; Helicta has egg-shaped spots. Some Helicta
> individuals may even appear like Mitchell's Satyr.
>
> Yes, some individuals are difficult to place. This does not necessarily
> mean two species are conspecific. Keep in mind that, with closely-related
> sibling species, there may be individual variation in either species that
> closely resembles the other.
>
> Harry Pavulaan
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Folks,</div><div><br></div><div>I would like to point=
out to readers that this taxon/species -- &quot;Helicta Satyr&quot; -- bou=
nces back and forth between a valid species or a valid subspecies of Georgi=
a Satyr, depending on the authority.=C2=A0 All websites should follow the c=
hecklist of one authority/reference, and the <u>Butterflies of North Caroli=
na </u>website follows the one most often in use by lepidopterists, especia=
lly as it is updated almost annually.=C2=A0 Jonathan Pelham has been compil=
ing <u>A Catalogue of the Butterflies of the United States and Canada</u> s=
ince at least 2011; the most recent version appears to be this one, dated 2=
3 February 2023:</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com=
/v3/__https://www.butterfliesofamerica.com/US-Can-Cat.htm__;!!OToaGQ!sCrW8P=
Cqt-VfjeMaoxDgtuOTsI5D4P8uQ-9dyIP8oP00EDkkHWrJp7IKL-zFRlUGyjtrfecbcVZDY9JVP=
mjMcA$">https://www.butterfliesofamerica.com/US-Can-Cat.htm</a></div><div><=
br></div><div>Pelham -- A Research Associate with the McGuire Center at the=
University of Florida -- had &quot;Helicta Satyr&quot; as a full species i=
n a former version -- <i>Neonympha helicta</i>, but in the past version or =
two has placed &quot;Helicta&quot; as a subspecies of Georgia Satyr, under =
the name of <i>Neonympha areolatus septentrionalis.=C2=A0 <br></i></div><di=
v><i><br></i></div><div>When Jeff and I were writing the upcoming <u>Butter=
flies of North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, and Georgia: A Guide</u>=
book, I did have Helicta as a full species, with a map and species account=
, and photos.=C2=A0 However, after Pelham came out with his latest version,=
we removed Helicta from the book, and the text for it was included within =
the Georgia account, and the map is a combined one for the two.=C2=A0=C2=A0=
Also, as the <u>Butterflies of North Carolina</u> website follows Pelham, =
in the last year I did remove Helicta Satyr and included its text within th=
e Georgia Satyr account.=C2=A0=C2=A0 We cannot change the book at this poin=
t.=C2=A0 It will be available through UNC Press in early summer, with only =
Georgia Satyr and not Helicta Satyr.=C2=A0 We can change the website, but o=
nly if and when Pelham makes a revision with Helicta as a full species.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>Again, the website needs to follow a single authorita=
tive checklist, and we follow Pelham&#39;s scientific names/taxonomy. I am =
not a taxonomist and have &quot;no iron in the fire&quot; here, and I have =
seen both forms on a number of occasions.=C2=A0 <br></div><div><br></div><d=
iv>Harry LeGrand</div><div>author, Butterflies of North Carolina website<br=
></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><=
div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 4:32=E2=80=AFP=
M Jeff Pippen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<carolinaleps...>" target=3D"_blank=
"><carolinaleps...></a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,=
204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Hi Harry &amp; All,<div><br></div><div>Harry, t=
hank you for the post! =C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>All, Helicta Satyr i=
s a tough insect to find in NC, and as Harry said, it=E2=80=99s a great one=
to be on the lookout for and to get photos for verification if possible.</=
div><div><br></div><div>Here=E2=80=99s a webpage with photos and extra info=
rmation to help identify both Georgia and Helicta Satyrs</div><div><br></di=
v><div><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.jeffpippen.com/bu=
tterflies/georgiasatyr.htm__;!!OToaGQ!tQ6ypyS6-kSVs0VA6Tum7FITRhuaV_vSUDckw=
9iHhAcBYyAGgOkeLCIm4pIW4amlgg1Djad-0V999Dj1gXHWGco$" target=3D"_blank">http=
s://www.jeffpippen.com/butterflies/georgiasatyr.htm</a><br id=3D"m_68415924=
83759646372m_6754966507829964261lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div>
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-alig=
n:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing=
:0px;text-decoration:none"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);lett=
er-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;whit=
e-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div dir=3D"auto" sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0=
px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:=
none"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s=
pacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0=
);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:non=
e;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div dir=3D"aut=
o" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-in=
dent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decor=
ation:none"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:norm=
al;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;=
word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);lette=
r-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white=
-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spaci=
ng:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:=
normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:norm=
al;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;=
word-spacing:0px"><div><br></div><div>There have been VERY few reports in t=
he last 15+ years.=C2=A0 The most recent reports are from counties along or=
near the =E2=80=9CFall Line=E2=80=9D (between the Piedmont and Coastal Pla=
in provinces).</div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Jeff</div><div><div><div d=
ir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=
=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><div><div><div><div>--</div><=
div>Jeffrey S. Pippen</div><div>Mebane, NC=C2=A0</div><div>Director,=C2=A0<=
a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.jeffpippen.com/butterflie=
s/carolinasbmp/carbmp-protocols.htm__;!!OToaGQ!tQ6ypyS6-kSVs0VA6Tum7FITRhua=
V_vSUDckw9iHhAcBYyAGgOkeLCIm4pIW4amlgg1Djad-0V999Dj1EN4FMew$" target=3D"_bl=
ank">Carolinas Butterfly Monitoring Program</a>=C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0=C2=A0<=
a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.thebutterflynetwork.org/_=
_;!!OToaGQ!tQ6ypyS6-kSVs0VA6Tum7FITRhuaV_vSUDckw9iHhAcBYyAGgOkeLCIm4pIW4aml=
gg1Djad-0V999Dj14BC93bc$" target=3D"_blank">N. Am. Butterfly Monitoring Net=
work</a>=C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttps://www.jeffpippen.com/__;!!OToaGQ!tQ6ypyS6-kSVs0VA6Tum7FITRhuaV_vSUDckw=
9iHhAcBYyAGgOkeLCIm4pIW4amlgg1Djad-0V999Dj1IgnhigU$" target=3D"_blank">Jeff=
=E2=80=99s Nature Pages</a></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></d=
iv></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"c=
ite"><div>On Mar 19, 2024, at 2:54=E2=80=AFPM, <a href=3D"mailto:hpazures@a=
ol.com" target=3D"_blank"><hpazures...></a> (via carolinaleps Mailing Li=
st) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<carolinaleps...>" target=3D"_blank">carolina=
<leps...></a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><div><div><div style=3D"font-family:a=
rial;font-size:16px"><div dir=3D"ltr">All:</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr">Removal of the Helicta Satyr as a species by Pelham (via B=
utterflies of America) was premature.=C2=A0 This was based on a paper by Jo=
hn Calhoun, which questioned whether the original illustration of Helicta S=
atyr represented a species or just a variant illustration of Georgia Satyr.=
=C2=A0 Ron Gatrelle &quot;elevated&quot; Neonympha helicta to species rank =
in his 1998 paper as TTR 1(8).=C2=A0 Pelham followed Calhoun, though Calhou=
n simply said more work was needed.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr">In conversations with Nick Grishin, his lab recently =
performed extensive genomic analysis of the Neonympha Satyrs throughout the=
eastern U.S.=C2=A0 They found that Neonympha broke down into three distinc=
t clades: mitchel
li, areaolatus, and helicta.=C2=A0 Three species.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr">My point here is that, even the &quot;experts&quot=
; make premature conclusions.=C2=A0 Mistakes that reverberate thought subse=
quent literature and the bigger websites.=C2=A0 My suggestion is that folks=
continue to report/photograph what appears to be Helicta Satyr.=C2=A0 Simp=
ly put, it is intermediate between Georgia Satyr and Mitchell&#39;s Satyr.=
=C2=A0 Mitchell&#39;s has round spots; Georgia has elongated &quot;banana&q=
uot; spots; Helicta has egg-shaped spots.=C2=A0 Some Helicta individuals ma=
y even appear like Mitchell&#39;s Satyr.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr">Yes, some individuals are difficult to place.=C2=A0 This doe=
s not necessarily mean two species are conspecific.=C2=A0 Keep in mind that=
, with closely-related sibling species, there may be individual variation i=
n either species that closely resembles the other.</div><u></u><br><u></u><=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr">Harry Pavulaan</div></div></div></blockquote></div><b=
r></div></div></blockquote></div>

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