Jump to :     |    View All Lists    |    FAQ
List: Carolina-Leps
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2024 17:48:33 -0400
From: Billy Weber (via carolinaleps Mailing List) <carolinaleps...>
Subject: Re: Helicata Satyr


--Apple-Mail-E5796927-EE86-4FE2-A35A-44DD84FAF198
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">My understanding is that, per Pelham, helic=
ta/upland Georgia Satyr is fully synonymized with nominate/lowland Georgia (=
areolatus). The subspecies septentrionalis and dadeensis are restricted to N=
ew Jersey and the Miami vicinity, respectively. In other words, according to=
the catalogue, only the nominate ssp. occurs in the Carolinas. I personally=
disagree with this treatment, for reasons Harry has provided, and because t=
he single =E2=80=9CHelicta=E2=80=9D (septentrionalis) I have photographed (i=
n NJ) seems closer to the Mitchell=E2=80=99s I=E2=80=99ve seen in AL than to=
the lowland Georgias I=E2=80=99ve seen in NC, but I have no experience with=
southeastern =E2=80=9CHelicta.=E2=80=9D<div><br></div><div>Greatly anticipa=
ting the book!<br><div><br></div><div>Billy Weber</div><div>Walnutport, PA</=
div><div><br></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Mar 19, 20=
24, at 5:11=E2=80=AFPM, Harry LeGrand &lt;<carolinaleps...>&gt; wrote:<b=
r><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Folks,</div><div><br></div><div>I would like to point o=
ut to readers that this taxon/species -- "Helicta Satyr" -- bounces back and=
forth between a valid species or a valid subspecies of Georgia Satyr, depen=
ding on the authority.&nbsp; All websites should follow the checklist of one=
authority/reference, and the <u>Butterflies of North Carolina </u>website f=
ollows the one most often in use by lepidopterists, especially as it is upda=
ted almost annually.&nbsp; Jonathan Pelham has been compiling <u>A Catalogue=
of the Butterflies of the United States and Canada</u> since at least 2011;=
the most recent version appears to be this one, dated 23 February 2023:</di=
v><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.but=
terfliesofamerica.com/US-Can-Cat.htm__;!!OToaGQ!sCrW8PCqt-VfjeMaoxDgtuOTsI5D=
4P8uQ-9dyIP8oP00EDkkHWrJp7IKL-zFRlUGyjtrfecbcVZDY9JVPmjMcA$">https://www.but=
terfliesofamerica.com/US-Can-Cat.htm</a></div><div><br></div><div>Pelham -- A=
Research Associate with the McGuire Center at the University of Florida -- h=
ad "Helicta Satyr" as a full species in a former version -- <i>Neonympha hel=
icta</i>, but in the past version or two has placed "Helicta" as a subspecie=
s of Georgia Satyr, under the name of <i>Neonympha areolatus septentrionalis=
.&nbsp; <br></i></div><div><i><br></i></div><div>When Jeff and I were writin=
g the upcoming <u>Butterflies of North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, a=
nd Georgia: A Guide</u> book, I did have Helicta as a full species, with a m=
ap and species account, and photos.&nbsp; However, after Pelham came out wit=
h his latest version, we removed Helicta from the book, and the text for it w=
as included within the Georgia account, and the map is a combined one for th=
e two.&nbsp;&nbsp; Also, as the <u>Butterflies of North Carolina</u> website=
follows Pelham, in the last year I did remove Helicta Satyr and included it=
s text within the Georgia Satyr account.&nbsp;&nbsp; We cannot change the bo=
ok at this point.&nbsp; It will be available through UNC Press in early summ=
er, with only Georgia Satyr and not Helicta Satyr.&nbsp; We can change the w=
ebsite, but only if and when Pelham makes a revision with Helicta as a full s=
pecies.</div><div><br></div><div>Again, the website needs to follow a single=
authoritative checklist, and we follow Pelham's scientific names/taxonomy. I=
am not a taxonomist and have "no iron in the fire" here, and I have seen bo=
th forms on a number of occasions.&nbsp; <br></div><div><br></div><div>Harry=
LeGrand</div><div>author, Butterflies of North Carolina website<br></div><d=
iv><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D=
"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 4:32=E2=80=AFPM Jeff Pipp=
en &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<carolinaleps...>" target=3D"_blank">carolinale=
<ps...></a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex"><div>Hi Harry &amp; All,<div><br></div><div>Harry, thank you for the p=
ost! &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>All, Helicta Satyr is a tough insect to=
find in NC, and as Harry said, it=E2=80=99s a great one to be on the lookou=
t for and to get photos for verification if possible.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>Here=E2=80=99s a webpage with photos and extra information to help identi=
fy both Georgia and Helicta Satyrs</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https=
://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.jeffpippen.com/butterflies/georgiasatyr.h=
tm__;!!OToaGQ!tQ6ypyS6-kSVs0VA6Tum7FITRhuaV_vSUDckw9iHhAcBYyAGgOkeLCIm4pIW4a=
mlgg1Djad-0V999Dj1gXHWGco$" target=3D"_blank">https://www.jeffpippen.com/but=
terflies/georgiasatyr.htm</a><br id=3D"m_6841592483759646372m_67549665078299=
64261lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div>
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align=
:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0=
px;text-decoration:none"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-=
spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-sp=
ace:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D=
"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;tex=
t-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><=
div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:=
start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0p=
x;text-decoration:none"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-s=
pacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-spa=
ce:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"=
color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text=
-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><d=
iv dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:s=
tart;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px=
;text-decoration:none"><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;=
text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word=
-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-alig=
n:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:=
0px"><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;t=
ext-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div=
><br></div><div>There have been VERY few reports in the last 15+ years.&nbsp=
; The most recent reports are from counties along or near the =E2=80=9CFall L=
ine=E2=80=9D (between the Piedmont and Coastal Plain provinces).</div><div><=
br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
div>Cheers,</div><div>Jeff</div><div><div><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto=
"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><d=
iv dir=3D"auto"><div><div><div><div>--</div><div>Jeffrey S. Pippen</div><div=
>Mebane, NC&nbsp;</div><div>Director,&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com=
/v3/__https://www.jeffpippen.com/butterflies/carolinasbmp/carbmp-protocols.h=
tm__;!!OToaGQ!tQ6ypyS6-kSVs0VA6Tum7FITRhuaV_vSUDckw9iHhAcBYyAGgOkeLCIm4pIW4a=
mlgg1Djad-0V999Dj1EN4FMew$" target=3D"_blank">Carolinas Butterfly Monitoring=
Program</a>&nbsp; &nbsp;| &nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/=
__https://www.thebutterflynetwork.org/__;!!OToaGQ!tQ6ypyS6-kSVs0VA6Tum7FITRh=
uaV_vSUDckw9iHhAcBYyAGgOkeLCIm4pIW4amlgg1Djad-0V999Dj14BC93bc$" target=3D"_b=
lank">N. Am. Butterfly Monitoring Network</a>&nbsp; &nbsp;| &nbsp;&nbsp;<a h=
ref=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.jeffpippen.com/__;!!OToaGQ!tQ=
6ypyS6-kSVs0VA6Tum7FITRhuaV_vSUDckw9iHhAcBYyAGgOkeLCIm4pIW4amlgg1Djad-0V999D=
j1IgnhigU$" target=3D"_blank">Jeff=E2=80=99s Nature Pages</a></div><div><br>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di=
v><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Mar 19, 2024, at 2:54=E2=80=AFP=
M, <a href=3D"mailto:<hpazures...>" target=3D"_blank"><hpazures...></a=
> (via carolinaleps Mailing List) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:<carolinaleps...>=
u" target=3D"_blank"><carolinaleps...></a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><div><div=
><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:16px"><div dir=3D"ltr">All:</div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Removal of the Helicta Satyr as a=
species by Pelham (via Butterflies of America) was premature.&nbsp; This wa=
s based on a paper by John Calhoun, which questioned whether the original il=
lustration of Helicta Satyr represented a species or just a variant illustra=
tion of Georgia Satyr.&nbsp; Ron Gatrelle "elevated" Neonympha helicta to sp=
ecies rank in his 1998 paper as TTR 1(8).&nbsp; Pelham followed Calhoun, tho=
ugh Calhoun simply said more work was needed.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">In conversations with Nick Grishin, his lab r=
ecently performed extensive genomic analysis of the Neonympha Satyrs through=
out the eastern U.S.&nbsp; They found that Neonympha broke down into three d=
istinct clades: mitchel
li, areaolatus, and helicta.&nbsp; Three species.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr">My point here is that, even the "experts" make prema=
ture conclusions.&nbsp; Mistakes that reverberate thought subsequent literat=
ure and the bigger websites.&nbsp; My suggestion is that folks continue to r=
eport/photograph what appears to be Helicta Satyr.&nbsp; Simply put, it is i=
ntermediate between Georgia Satyr and Mitchell's Satyr.&nbsp; Mitchell's has=
round spots; Georgia has elongated "banana" spots; Helicta has egg-shaped s=
pots.&nbsp; Some Helicta individuals may even appear like Mitchell's Satyr.<=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Yes, some individuals are d=
ifficult to place.&nbsp; This does not necessarily mean two species are cons=
pecific.&nbsp; Keep in mind that, with closely-related sibling species, ther=
e may be individual variation in either species that closely resembles the o=
ther.</div><u></u><br><u></u></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Harry Pavulaan</div></di=
v></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div>
</div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-E5796927-EE86-4FE2-A35A-44DD84FAF198--